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[Music]

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foreign

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[Music]

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hey guys Ryan Sprague here from

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somewhere in the skies and I can't

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believe I'm saying this but this is the

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first time we are having today's guest

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on the show so I am very excited I've

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been a huge fan of his work for a very

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long time we have worked together

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actually on a book of essays UFOs

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reframing the debate two of our essays

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were featured in this wonderful

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wonderful book of um all different

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essays all about UFOs and the different

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ways to approach it and uh that is

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definitely something we are going to

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touch on today with our guest and we're

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also going to touch on all of the

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current stuff going on in the UFO world

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and how things have changed from just a

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few years back and um

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whether it's an evolution or a

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Devolution we will leave that up to our

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guest and I to uh to debate about but

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it's gonna be super fun we're gonna have

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fun if you haven't noticed a lot of our

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shows lately we've been going back to

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the roots of somewhere in the skies you

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know talking about the experiencers and

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uh the different thoughts and theories

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and opinions on what UFOs could be and

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um kind of moving a little away from a

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lot of the the current government sqfo

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talk but I want to return to having fun

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conversations here at somewhere in the

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sky so without further Ado let's bring

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him in for the very first time we have

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red pill junkie what is going on man

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hola

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hey thanks for having me it's uh

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we've been we've known each other for

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how many years by now Ryan and and yeah

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it's finally about time

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I know I know man hey if it's of any

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consolation I still haven't had Greg

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Bishop as a main guest uh even Paul

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Kimball so I've got a lot of making up

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to do with the UFO Community the people

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who really got me invigorated and

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inspired um so I think I'm starting with

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you my man you're bringing me back into

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the reason I got into ufology and and

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that's to have interesting conversations

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about all of it what it all could mean

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um some of the more profound questions

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that come with this topic

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um like I said and kind of move away

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from this

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stuffy kind of government chatter that's

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been going on for the past few years

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um so that's kind of where I want to

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start with you if you don't mind

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um what do you make of and this is kind

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of a a big place to start but what do

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you make of ufology today in 2023 you

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know just before 2017 is when our book

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came out and when we really tried to

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shake things up it was stuffy and

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nothing had changed for a long time

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um and then boom this New York Times

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article comes out and it seems that

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everything changed so where do you stand

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today in 2023 when it comes to uh the

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evolution or like I mentioned earlier

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the de-evolution of ufology I guess

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it's a great question uh I will think

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I'll have to uh disagree a little bit uh

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with your stance that

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nothing was changing in ufology by the

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time that uh that book reframing The

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Debate was published because I

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personally feel that by that time

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uh certain

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people within the field of ufology were

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starting to be more open and starting to

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entertain uh the idea that uh

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it was important to pay attention to the

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witnesses

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to their inner State of Mind to the

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transformational aspects that their

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experience had on them on a long-term

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basis like uh the their encounter

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changed their perspective about God

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either did it change their spirituality

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did it had any effect on their

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relationships on their under

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job situation their careers things like

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that things that uh you know groups like

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move on who were like more interested

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only on the details the technical

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details of their observations just the

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facts man you know what how big was the

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object what shape it was you know uh did

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it have lights or not the where where

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any kind of like marks on the ground so

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I think that by then ufology was

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starting to pay more attention to the

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witnesses and also open to the idea that

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Consciousness has something to do a very

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a very important thing to do with the

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phenomenon itself in ways that we are

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still not equipped to answer because

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if you ask people what is consciousness

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they will give you a thousand different

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explanations the way it's the same way

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that maybe they'll give you a thousand

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different explanations of what the soul

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is or something like that

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but uh this is something that

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I think some people in the field were

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starting to say you know

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UFOs

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seems to be seem to be connected to the

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Witnesses in some capacity you know the

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co-creation aspect that our friend Greg

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Bishop has written about and I think

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that then

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within New York Times article in 2017 uh

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we were back to square one back to the

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idea of the 1950s

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and even people in in Eufaula were

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trying to like erase a whole chunk of

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History like saying well

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let's forget about

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encounters with you for nuts let's

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forget about you know abduction let's

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forget about Close Encounters of the

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Third Kind Fourth Kind whatever yeah

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let's just stick to

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uh tracking soon radar the testimony of

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of pilots who for

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some reason or other seem to be or or

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seem to be more reliable

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in in some circles the testimony of

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pilots and that testimony of I don't

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know Farmers or the testimony of school

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teachers let's stick to the testimony of

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the pilots let's stick to the to the

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military observations and

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what are UFOs where do they come from

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well who knows but it's uh let's

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remember that it's a military threat

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uh and and by the way we can no longer

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call them UFOs we have to use the

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appropriate acronym you know the Now

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official acronym is UAP which keeps

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changing very well because before it was

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unidentified aerial phenomena and now

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it's unidentified anomalous phenomena

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which is interesting so if I see a

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Bigfoot in the forest is that a Europe

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are you going to go and shoot it down

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uh I'm making fun of this because uh

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first of all guys if you don't have a

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healthy sense of humor when you're

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dealing with the UFO phenomena you have

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you're going to have a miserable time

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you know it's something that is

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Paramount take these in a light-hearted

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matter

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uh we all also with that with a you know

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a grain of salt but but don't take

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yourself and your beliefs about the UFO

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so seriously it's my you know humble

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recommendation

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absolutely man and I think that's kind

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of what's missing in today's ethology or

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the discourse let's say on quote unquote

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UFO Twitter it's um it's not fun

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everyone takes it so seriously and um

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and argue it's not even a debate anymore

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it's just arguing and look that goes for

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any Community any

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um you know field of study like this

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happens everywhere but I think what

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we're seeing now is like I said

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everyone's taking it so seriously

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because of that national security threat

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angle so it's like you know we can't

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laugh about this because it's dangerous

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it's it's it's gonna harm us uh when in

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reality like you look at the history of

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UFOs and how many UFOs have actually

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harmed individuals at least physically

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maybe psychologically you know and

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whatnot but yeah I think we um

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we're missing that absurd trickster's

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trickster-ish fun nature to it all and

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um yeah yeah I think that's kind of

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what's missing so

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um thank you I'm glad we could touch on

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kind of the current state of ufology and

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I do want to Circle back to that because

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I think your essay actually

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um has a lot to do with that in terms of

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the structure of what we see today and

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how we need to break that uh but let's

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rewind a little bit for uh for any of my

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viewers and listeners who may not be

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familiar with you uh would you mind

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telling us the origin story red pill

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junk like how did you first of all

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where'd the name come from and second of

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all how did you first get interested in

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uh the the the comic book origin story

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okay uh well there's two different

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questions

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uh obviously I became interested in UFOs

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way before

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chose the silly moniker which by the way

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uh

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had a totally different

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meaning

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when I decided to choose it uh you know

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uh when I went to college I I read a lot

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of Carlos Castaneda uh the teachings of

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Don Juan journey to Islam books I highly

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recommend despite the fact that there's

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a lot of controversy with with Carlos

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which we don't get into that this is not

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the time of the place to go into into

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that discussion but when then when I saw

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the first Matrix movie it was you know

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like uh

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a real like punch in the face so it was

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so impactful uh like I got it like I saw

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the like

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Morpheus the characters that is the

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mentor to Neo was like uh Don Juan this

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Jackie Shaman that supposedly was the

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the teacher of Carlos who became like a

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sorceress Apprentice in the 1960s and

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that I also the idea by the end of the

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movie a spoiler alert when Neo finally

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sees the Matrix for where it really is

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it's something that also is shown not

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only in castaneda's books but in you

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know pretty much all the mystical books

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about people when they kind of like lift

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the veil of reality and they they see

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the universe for what really is which is

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nothing but you know energy feels

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vibrating at different you know uh

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densities and being human beings being

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us as as glowing eggs you know like like

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a cluster of of that energy that is

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sentient

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so that is the reason what I chose the

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nickname red pill junkie which was kind

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of like oh

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self-deprecating you know also and also

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a reminder of not taking myself

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seriously but also to remind me how you

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know uh on like in the movie when you

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only have to take the red pill once and

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you are instantly transformed when you

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look into the UFO phenomenon it's like

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you know you're constantly searching for

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those red pills that are going to change

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your perspective and again to briefly

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open your eyes

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uh into the nature of reality The Matrix

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is one of the movies that I choose to

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call Gnostic like I think the gnosticism

276
00:13:29,269 --> 00:13:26,160
is very is very important in my life the

277
00:13:32,030 --> 00:13:29,279
idea that the world is not what we think

278
00:13:34,129 --> 00:13:32,040
it is well in the movie it is a prison

279
00:13:36,769 --> 00:13:34,139
and to the gnostics it was also kind of

280
00:13:40,190 --> 00:13:36,779
like uh some kind of like a a prison for

281
00:13:42,829 --> 00:13:40,200
the soul but even if you don't take that

282
00:13:45,370 --> 00:13:42,839
negative connotation that we can I think

283
00:13:48,769 --> 00:13:45,380
we can all agree that

284
00:13:54,769 --> 00:13:48,779
reality is something much larger than we

285
00:13:58,030 --> 00:13:54,779
what our feeble senses can can detect I

286
00:14:00,110 --> 00:13:58,040
mean our senses were created over

287
00:14:03,350 --> 00:14:00,120
millions or billions of years of

288
00:14:07,370 --> 00:14:03,360
evolution and only to to Keep Us Alive

289
00:14:12,230 --> 00:14:07,380
you know only to like detect threats uh

290
00:14:15,470 --> 00:14:12,240
able to uh chase down uh food to to be

291
00:14:17,810 --> 00:14:15,480
able to survive natural catastrophes

292
00:14:19,670 --> 00:14:17,820
whatever but they're not really equipped

293
00:14:22,430 --> 00:14:19,680
to actually show us

294
00:14:25,910 --> 00:14:22,440
what the world really is like and and

295
00:14:28,970 --> 00:14:25,920
sometimes you can do that uh either

296
00:14:32,090 --> 00:14:28,980
through meditation practices or also

297
00:14:35,269 --> 00:14:32,100
through you know like in this uh t-shirt

298
00:14:37,910 --> 00:14:35,279
that I chose to wear today the use of in

299
00:14:41,509 --> 00:14:37,920
theogens like this one for example is

300
00:14:46,009 --> 00:14:41,519
inspired this is the which all art which

301
00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:46,019
always is a is a native Native group in

302
00:14:53,210 --> 00:14:49,920
Mexico that use peyote or hikuri as they

303
00:14:56,750 --> 00:14:53,220
call it in order like to break the doors

304
00:15:00,350 --> 00:14:56,760
of perception like William Blake said so

305
00:15:03,590 --> 00:15:00,360
that is what the the red Bill junkie was

306
00:15:06,590 --> 00:15:03,600
at the time that the nickname that I

307
00:15:10,210 --> 00:15:06,600
chose way before those [\h__\h] you know

308
00:15:14,170 --> 00:15:10,220
the right Wingers and now the the male

309
00:15:18,110 --> 00:15:14,180
rights proponents and started to distort

310
00:15:21,290 --> 00:15:18,120
uh the term and now when someone says oh

311
00:15:23,210 --> 00:15:21,300
that guy got Redfield I always cringe

312
00:15:25,610 --> 00:15:23,220
and die a little bit inside because

313
00:15:28,009 --> 00:15:25,620
that's not that's not what I meant and

314
00:15:30,590 --> 00:15:28,019
it's definitely not what uh the

315
00:15:34,689 --> 00:15:30,600
Wachowski sisters you know the original

316
00:15:37,730 --> 00:15:34,699
creators of of the Matrix which are

317
00:15:39,170 --> 00:15:37,740
trans women there's definitely not what

318
00:15:40,730 --> 00:15:39,180
they meant when they created a Time

319
00:15:43,670 --> 00:15:40,740
breath build you know so I'm you I'm

320
00:15:46,850 --> 00:15:43,680
going with the OG term red pill is

321
00:15:49,370 --> 00:15:46,860
something that is not meant to like uh

322
00:15:52,069 --> 00:15:49,380
fight of the right-wing

323
00:15:53,810 --> 00:15:52,079
rights is about changing your

324
00:15:55,970 --> 00:15:53,820
perspective of reality

325
00:15:58,790 --> 00:15:55,980
now going with your second question you

326
00:16:00,290 --> 00:15:58,800
know how I got interested in in in all

327
00:16:03,769 --> 00:16:00,300
this stuff

328
00:16:06,889 --> 00:16:03,779
I was born in 1973 and yes I take pride

329
00:16:08,750 --> 00:16:06,899
in in the fact that I was born in the

330
00:16:10,790 --> 00:16:08,760
year of the humanoids

331
00:16:13,730 --> 00:16:10,800
you know this is something that we will

332
00:16:15,889 --> 00:16:13,740
learn when we get into the uh the

333
00:16:18,470 --> 00:16:15,899
youthful history a lot of really

334
00:16:20,449 --> 00:16:18,480
interesting uh Close Encounters

335
00:16:23,569 --> 00:16:20,459
happening that year Pascagoula for

336
00:16:26,509 --> 00:16:23,579
example happened in October of 1973 I

337
00:16:27,590 --> 00:16:26,519
was born in October of 1973 so it's one

338
00:16:30,410 --> 00:16:27,600
of the reasons why it's one of my

339
00:16:33,889 --> 00:16:30,420
favorite cases uh

340
00:16:37,970 --> 00:16:33,899
so have you been born in the in the

341
00:16:41,930 --> 00:16:37,980
early 1970s and uh you know growing up

342
00:16:45,590 --> 00:16:41,940
in the 1980s I was exposed to Steven

343
00:16:48,230 --> 00:16:45,600
Spielberg movies uh Close Encounters of

344
00:16:51,530 --> 00:16:48,240
the Third Kind E.T the Extraterrestrial

345
00:16:54,790 --> 00:16:51,540
of course you know uh there were a lot

346
00:16:59,990 --> 00:16:54,800
of really good and really uh influential

347
00:17:03,710 --> 00:17:00,000
UFO inspired uh movies in that era and I

348
00:17:07,069 --> 00:17:03,720
think that really got me like

349
00:17:10,250 --> 00:17:07,079
Wonder struck looking into the night sky

350
00:17:14,569 --> 00:17:10,260
you know whatever few Stars one can

351
00:17:16,850 --> 00:17:14,579
watch uh in Mexico City night skies and

352
00:17:19,689 --> 00:17:16,860
wonder you know about you know is there

353
00:17:24,110 --> 00:17:19,699
really any anybody out there

354
00:17:27,409 --> 00:17:24,120
uh also I have to admit that in the

355
00:17:28,970 --> 00:17:27,419
1980s uh here in Mexico we have we have

356
00:17:32,030 --> 00:17:28,980
uh

357
00:17:34,789 --> 00:17:32,040
like the Mexican version of the of the

358
00:17:37,190 --> 00:17:34,799
TV show 60 Minutes they had something

359
00:17:40,250 --> 00:17:37,200
like that here and there was a young

360
00:17:42,230 --> 00:17:40,260
reporter who was one of the contributors

361
00:17:46,130 --> 00:17:42,240
or the investigators in the in that

362
00:17:47,990 --> 00:17:46,140
program by the name of Jaime mausan I

363
00:17:52,210 --> 00:17:48,000
don't know if you the name rings a bell

364
00:17:56,870 --> 00:17:52,220
with you I'm joking here uh but mausan

365
00:17:59,090 --> 00:17:56,880
in that show he made a reportage about

366
00:18:02,390 --> 00:17:59,100
uh Edward William Meyer

367
00:18:06,950 --> 00:18:02,400
you know the Swiss contacty who in the

368
00:18:10,610 --> 00:18:06,960
1970s and the 1980s really made a splash

369
00:18:14,390 --> 00:18:10,620
with these uh pictures of what they look

370
00:18:18,950 --> 00:18:14,400
like you know silver saucers with a very

371
00:18:21,529 --> 00:18:18,960
bucolic uh pastoral landscape of this of

372
00:18:23,470 --> 00:18:21,539
the of the Swiss Alps you know so the

373
00:18:27,289 --> 00:18:23,480
Green Mountains and you have that

374
00:18:30,110 --> 00:18:27,299
contrast of the cleaning

375
00:18:32,330 --> 00:18:30,120
The Impossible looking saucer really had

376
00:18:36,230 --> 00:18:32,340
an impact in in my own impressionable

377
00:18:40,549 --> 00:18:36,240
mind obviously you know with age I came

378
00:18:42,529 --> 00:18:40,559
to understand that those uh photos are

379
00:18:45,950 --> 00:18:42,539
very questionable

380
00:18:50,090 --> 00:18:45,960
we don't get into the details of why or

381
00:18:53,350 --> 00:18:50,100
if if Meyer is is only a Hoster or maybe

382
00:18:55,850 --> 00:18:53,360
he actually had a few genuine

383
00:18:57,830 --> 00:18:55,860
experiences and then he was kind of like

384
00:18:59,990 --> 00:18:57,840
trying to keep it going keep the role

385
00:19:03,110 --> 00:19:00,000
going with the hoaxes which is something

386
00:19:05,150 --> 00:19:03,120
that is very common but like like I said

387
00:19:07,549 --> 00:19:05,160
it's another story but that's one of the

388
00:19:10,669 --> 00:19:07,559
things that have really got me you know

389
00:19:12,770 --> 00:19:10,679
really hooked on an early age and that

390
00:19:14,029 --> 00:19:12,780
that fascination with the phenomenon

391
00:19:19,909 --> 00:19:14,039
persisted

392
00:19:22,850 --> 00:19:19,919
all the way to the 1990s in 1999 1991 we

393
00:19:26,870 --> 00:19:22,860
have a total solar eclipse here in

394
00:19:29,029 --> 00:19:26,880
Mexico July 11 I want to say we had

395
00:19:31,310 --> 00:19:29,039
around six minutes we had a total solar

396
00:19:34,610 --> 00:19:31,320
eclipse that that was visible in Mexico

397
00:19:36,169 --> 00:19:34,620
City and other parts of of uh Central

398
00:19:37,370 --> 00:19:36,179
Mexico

399
00:19:39,529 --> 00:19:37,380
and

400
00:19:43,130 --> 00:19:39,539
as you know

401
00:19:47,090 --> 00:19:43,140
some people observed something during

402
00:19:49,370 --> 00:19:47,100
during that Eclipse that was even filmed

403
00:19:51,590 --> 00:19:49,380
on videotape

404
00:19:55,150 --> 00:19:51,600
something that actually looks like uh

405
00:19:58,370 --> 00:19:55,160
like uh screaming uh object that was

406
00:20:01,310 --> 00:19:58,380
hovering over Mexico City and that was

407
00:20:03,590 --> 00:20:01,320
you know something that became instant

408
00:20:06,470 --> 00:20:03,600
news and I think that it also became

409
00:20:10,310 --> 00:20:06,480
news worldwide and because of that Jaime

410
00:20:13,370 --> 00:20:10,320
mausan was being asked as a guest on TV

411
00:20:16,130 --> 00:20:13,380
on TV programs on a you know regular

412
00:20:18,770 --> 00:20:16,140
basis and I was you know watching all

413
00:20:20,570 --> 00:20:18,780
those shows you know instantly hooked

414
00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:20,580
trying to see what else was going on

415
00:20:27,289 --> 00:20:23,760
because apparently it was the beginning

416
00:20:30,110 --> 00:20:27,299
of a really active wave of UFO activity

417
00:20:32,570 --> 00:20:30,120
that happened on Mexico in the in the

418
00:20:35,169 --> 00:20:32,580
early 1990s and that is the reason why

419
00:20:38,510 --> 00:20:35,179
you know I kept

420
00:20:39,650 --> 00:20:38,520
watching the the news here in Mexico and

421
00:20:43,310 --> 00:20:39,660
at the same time when the internet

422
00:20:45,710 --> 00:20:43,320
became uh available I used the internet

423
00:20:49,970 --> 00:20:45,720
when I was going to college to try to

424
00:20:54,409 --> 00:20:49,980
gather more information uh from uh news

425
00:20:57,770 --> 00:20:54,419
groups uh email groups chat groups to

426
00:21:00,289 --> 00:20:57,780
try to learn more about what was invoked

427
00:21:04,490 --> 00:21:00,299
back then you know Roswell Roswell

428
00:21:07,789 --> 00:21:04,500
became very big in the 1990s Area 51 and

429
00:21:10,250 --> 00:21:07,799
Bob Lazar and and the Gulf Breeze

430
00:21:12,710 --> 00:21:10,260
sightings and all that jazz you know and

431
00:21:15,370 --> 00:21:12,720
that's the thing that you know kept kept

432
00:21:18,289 --> 00:21:15,380
my fire going so it's

433
00:21:20,690 --> 00:21:18,299
it's my interest in the UFOs has never

434
00:21:23,210 --> 00:21:20,700
been meaning she's has gone from ups and

435
00:21:26,750 --> 00:21:23,220
downs because you know as old as

436
00:21:30,669 --> 00:21:26,760
everybody you begin to become focused on

437
00:21:33,890 --> 00:21:30,679
your career uh job

438
00:21:38,149 --> 00:21:33,900
relationships whatever but my interest

439
00:21:40,310 --> 00:21:38,159
in UFOs has always been part part of my

440
00:21:43,310 --> 00:21:40,320
life and never been like oh yeah you

441
00:21:45,590 --> 00:21:43,320
know I got over it and then I I returned

442
00:21:49,669 --> 00:21:45,600
no it's been always there

443
00:21:51,350 --> 00:21:49,679
it's always there man somehow someway I

444
00:21:53,450 --> 00:21:51,360
know that feeling

445
00:21:56,810 --> 00:21:53,460
um unless you're willing to give up your

446
00:21:59,390 --> 00:21:56,820
job your your relationships and and any

447
00:22:01,610 --> 00:21:59,400
sense of an actual free life

448
00:22:04,909 --> 00:22:01,620
um this topic will consume you and and

449
00:22:06,049 --> 00:22:04,919
look I was the same way I I I Can Only

450
00:22:10,010 --> 00:22:06,059
Imagine

451
00:22:12,169 --> 00:22:10,020
like the mid 90s you and I probably were

452
00:22:14,510 --> 00:22:12,179
in like the same chat forums and had no

453
00:22:17,750 --> 00:22:14,520
idea who each other were back then but I

454
00:22:20,870 --> 00:22:17,760
have no doubt that we probably cross

455
00:22:22,010 --> 00:22:20,880
paths digitally back then you me and a

456
00:22:24,649 --> 00:22:22,020
lot of the other

457
00:22:27,529 --> 00:22:24,659
um researchers out there so that's cool

458
00:22:29,210 --> 00:22:27,539
I I love to see you know I love hearing

459
00:22:32,090 --> 00:22:29,220
how people got interested some people

460
00:22:34,549 --> 00:22:32,100
it's just a Fascination some it's a

461
00:22:37,909 --> 00:22:34,559
sighting or an experience

462
00:22:40,130 --> 00:22:37,919
um but yeah I I also remember

463
00:22:42,830 --> 00:22:40,140
you know in the United States growing up

464
00:22:46,850 --> 00:22:42,840
and seeing all these specials on TV

465
00:22:49,730 --> 00:22:46,860
whether it was sightings or or fox or

466
00:22:53,110 --> 00:22:49,740
um you know of the the best UFO videos

467
00:22:56,330 --> 00:22:53,120
of the year and there were only so many

468
00:22:59,750 --> 00:22:56,340
from Mexico and uh specifically Mexico

469
00:23:01,310 --> 00:22:59,760
City and I just remember always asking

470
00:23:05,270 --> 00:23:01,320
my parents like can we go to Mexico

471
00:23:08,210 --> 00:23:05,280
please please I want to see a UFO and oh

472
00:23:11,390 --> 00:23:08,220
man those are the days I I miss those

473
00:23:15,169 --> 00:23:11,400
days for sure right yeah there was a

474
00:23:19,070 --> 00:23:15,179
time when uh a cousin of mine and I

475
00:23:21,169 --> 00:23:19,080
wanted to become part of mausan's uh

476
00:23:24,350 --> 00:23:21,179
group of UFO Hunters you know they

477
00:23:27,169 --> 00:23:24,360
called themselves Los Vigilantes you

478
00:23:31,010 --> 00:23:27,179
know like the the Watchers and I mean

479
00:23:31,909 --> 00:23:31,020
these were people who were spending uh

480
00:23:35,690 --> 00:23:31,919
like

481
00:23:39,950 --> 00:23:35,700
eight hours or more on their rooftops

482
00:23:42,529 --> 00:23:39,960
with a video camera just waiting waiting

483
00:23:44,990 --> 00:23:42,539
to see something and yeah you know some

484
00:23:48,169 --> 00:23:45,000
some of the time they actually managed

485
00:23:50,450 --> 00:23:48,179
to film a few interesting things I'm not

486
00:23:52,190 --> 00:23:50,460
saying oh well all those were UFOs I'm

487
00:23:55,850 --> 00:23:52,200
sure there were a lot of food which

488
00:23:59,510 --> 00:23:55,860
ended up being Miler balloons or flares

489
00:24:02,450 --> 00:23:59,520
or whatever but that kind of like

490
00:24:04,549 --> 00:24:02,460
persistence paid off I remember and this

491
00:24:06,950 --> 00:24:04,559
is something that I wrote about for

492
00:24:08,590 --> 00:24:06,960
Mysterious Universe back when I was uh

493
00:24:11,149 --> 00:24:08,600
one of the writers

494
00:24:13,490 --> 00:24:11,159
uh an experience I had back in those

495
00:24:16,310 --> 00:24:13,500
days which was a really good learning

496
00:24:18,770 --> 00:24:16,320
experience I went to a UFO conference

497
00:24:22,549 --> 00:24:18,780
here in Mexico well a small one you know

498
00:24:24,409 --> 00:24:22,559
like uh someone hired the hole you know

499
00:24:25,669 --> 00:24:24,419
or something and there were a few

500
00:24:29,029 --> 00:24:25,679
speakers

501
00:24:31,850 --> 00:24:29,039
and there was a guy in the audience who

502
00:24:36,230 --> 00:24:31,860
I I knew because I had seen him in a few

503
00:24:38,690 --> 00:24:36,240
UFO uh related TV shows who claimed to

504
00:24:41,090 --> 00:24:38,700
be a contact team and you know so he

505
00:24:44,330 --> 00:24:41,100
asked for the microphone and he says you

506
00:24:47,029 --> 00:24:44,340
know I've been allowed to say that there

507
00:24:50,149 --> 00:24:47,039
is going to be amazing a massive

508
00:24:55,250 --> 00:24:50,159
sighting of flying saucers over Mexico

509
00:24:59,270 --> 00:24:55,260
City on the eve of New Year's uh what

510
00:25:02,090 --> 00:24:59,280
year I think it was 1993 or 1992 and he

511
00:25:04,430 --> 00:25:02,100
says and this will be the dawn of a new

512
00:25:08,270 --> 00:25:04,440
era and the beginning of open contact

513
00:25:11,029 --> 00:25:08,280
with our space brothers and la la

514
00:25:12,950 --> 00:25:11,039
and I was like oh my god this is my

515
00:25:15,110 --> 00:25:12,960
chance this is finally my chance I'm

516
00:25:19,430 --> 00:25:15,120
gonna go and see something so obviously

517
00:25:23,570 --> 00:25:19,440
what did Miguel do he spent all that

518
00:25:26,330 --> 00:25:23,580
night of New Year's Eve freezing my ass

519
00:25:30,049 --> 00:25:26,340
off uh you know sitting on the rooftop

520
00:25:32,149 --> 00:25:30,059
of my uncle Fernando's house while the

521
00:25:33,950 --> 00:25:32,159
rest of my family were having a party

522
00:25:37,130 --> 00:25:33,960
and having a great time and eating

523
00:25:39,470 --> 00:25:37,140
dinner alone and I was there just you

524
00:25:41,630 --> 00:25:39,480
know hopefully you know waiting you know

525
00:25:42,970 --> 00:25:41,640
expectantly saying you know this is it

526
00:25:47,930 --> 00:25:42,980
tonight tonight

527
00:25:51,409 --> 00:25:47,940
and obviously I didn't see I got damn

528
00:25:53,390 --> 00:25:51,419
thing so I I say that it was a good

529
00:25:56,210 --> 00:25:53,400
experience because it opened my eyes it

530
00:25:58,490 --> 00:25:56,220
opened and it made me realize there's a

531
00:26:01,909 --> 00:25:58,500
lot of charlatans out there and there's

532
00:26:05,269 --> 00:26:01,919
the UFO phenomenon is played with all

533
00:26:07,010 --> 00:26:05,279
these fake uh prophecies you know

534
00:26:11,409 --> 00:26:07,020
prophecies that don't come true

535
00:26:14,690 --> 00:26:11,419
sometimes after a

536
00:26:16,970 --> 00:26:14,700
predictions were made and actually did

537
00:26:19,909 --> 00:26:16,980
come true so it's a like you said it's

538
00:26:21,890 --> 00:26:19,919
the trickster nature of this phenomena

539
00:26:24,110 --> 00:26:21,900
that is toying with us like saying hey

540
00:26:26,450 --> 00:26:24,120
here's the carrot you know following the

541
00:26:29,029 --> 00:26:26,460
card that means dangling the carrot so

542
00:26:31,610 --> 00:26:29,039
we can you know keep like pulling the

543
00:26:34,450 --> 00:26:31,620
cart for whatever reason we don't know

544
00:26:38,330 --> 00:26:34,460
you know maybe it's uh Jacque Valley

545
00:26:40,149 --> 00:26:38,340
uh Control System Theory you know the

546
00:26:43,730 --> 00:26:40,159
cultural thermostat

547
00:26:45,350 --> 00:26:43,740
or maybe it's just uh you know so they

548
00:26:48,350 --> 00:26:45,360
get a kick out of it

549
00:26:51,830 --> 00:26:48,360
yeah pure Amusement maybe they feed off

550
00:26:55,430 --> 00:26:51,840
our fears or for Pure Amusement yeah you

551
00:26:57,289 --> 00:26:55,440
know the reason why the elves love to go

552
00:26:59,990 --> 00:26:57,299
and trick people because you know they

553
00:27:00,909 --> 00:27:00,000
they enjoy it you know they make fun of

554
00:27:09,890 --> 00:27:00,919
us

555
00:27:12,289 --> 00:27:09,900
um well okay

556
00:27:16,909 --> 00:27:12,299
that's that's awesome uh let's fast

557
00:27:21,470 --> 00:27:16,919
forward to uh UFOs reframing the debate

558
00:27:24,409 --> 00:27:21,480
uh this book came out in um early 2017.

559
00:27:27,169 --> 00:27:24,419
if I'm remembering correctly

560
00:27:29,149 --> 00:27:27,179
um yes yeah like right before yeah right

561
00:27:32,690 --> 00:27:29,159
before the big story hit in the New York

562
00:27:36,890 --> 00:27:32,700
Times crazy crazy how that worked out um

563
00:27:40,250 --> 00:27:36,900
so how did that come to be how did what

564
00:27:42,350 --> 00:27:40,260
inspired you to write Anarchy in the UFO

565
00:27:45,110 --> 00:27:42,360
and uh how did you get hooked up with

566
00:27:46,669 --> 00:27:45,120
Robbie Graham and and and the editors

567
00:27:51,310 --> 00:27:46,679
and everyone over there at UFOs were

568
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:55,669
uh so

569
00:27:55,679 --> 00:28:00,970
I think it was in 2010

570
00:28:11,690 --> 00:28:06,110
when I became involved with this uh new

571
00:28:16,789 --> 00:28:13,310
uh

572
00:28:19,070 --> 00:28:16,799
Greg Taylor the owner asked me to be

573
00:28:22,250 --> 00:28:19,080
become one of his news administrators

574
00:28:24,649 --> 00:28:22,260
and at first I was very hesitant to do

575
00:28:27,409 --> 00:28:24,659
it like my God I don't even speak

576
00:28:29,870 --> 00:28:27,419
English you know Mexican I'm gonna be

577
00:28:33,470 --> 00:28:29,880
terrible at it I I wouldn't even know

578
00:28:36,169 --> 00:28:33,480
how to find news or whatever and he said

579
00:28:37,610 --> 00:28:36,179
no no you'll be you'll be great think

580
00:28:42,049 --> 00:28:37,620
about it

581
00:28:44,990 --> 00:28:42,059
uh ideas and at the end I decided to

582
00:28:47,450 --> 00:28:45,000
yeah go go for it one of my one of the

583
00:28:48,649 --> 00:28:47,460
best decisions I ever made in my life

584
00:28:51,409 --> 00:28:48,659
uh

585
00:28:53,450 --> 00:28:51,419
because the Daily Grill has given me so

586
00:28:58,370 --> 00:28:53,460
much okay

587
00:29:00,470 --> 00:28:58,380
was no social media it gave me access to

588
00:29:02,870 --> 00:29:00,480
this community of people who were

589
00:29:05,090 --> 00:29:02,880
interested in the same crazy stuff

590
00:29:08,029 --> 00:29:05,100
as I was you know stuff that I couldn't

591
00:29:09,830 --> 00:29:08,039
even talk to you know friends over here

592
00:29:13,930 --> 00:29:09,840
or my family

593
00:29:17,390 --> 00:29:13,940
uh so all of a sudden I had access to

594
00:29:19,250 --> 00:29:17,400
this group of like-minded people and

595
00:29:22,970 --> 00:29:19,260
that group became larger and larger

596
00:29:26,090 --> 00:29:22,980
before beyond the the the the confines

597
00:29:27,529 --> 00:29:26,100
of the daily Royal community

598
00:29:30,470 --> 00:29:27,539
like

599
00:29:33,049 --> 00:29:30,480
one of the people who I got involved

600
00:29:35,750 --> 00:29:33,059
with thanks to the Grail was Robbie

601
00:29:38,630 --> 00:29:35,760
Graham I don't remember how exactly I

602
00:29:41,090 --> 00:29:38,640
found Robbie Graham's block

603
00:29:43,130 --> 00:29:41,100
Silver Screen saucers maybe it was

604
00:29:45,350 --> 00:29:43,140
because one of my other common friends

605
00:29:48,289 --> 00:29:45,360
maybe Greg Greg Bishop

606
00:29:52,070 --> 00:29:48,299
or make a hands one of them probably

607
00:29:53,810 --> 00:29:52,080
linked to Robbie and saying hey look you

608
00:29:56,090 --> 00:29:53,820
know this guy is doing something really

609
00:29:59,389 --> 00:29:56,100
cool like analyzing

610
00:30:03,350 --> 00:29:59,399
and Hollywood movies that have some kind

611
00:30:04,789 --> 00:30:03,360
of like alien of UFO theme and trying to

612
00:30:09,190 --> 00:30:04,799
you know

613
00:30:13,250 --> 00:30:09,200
like deconstruct The Narrative of those

614
00:30:18,169 --> 00:30:13,260
uh movies and compare it with actual uh

615
00:30:22,070 --> 00:30:18,179
UFO history you know and seeing how uh

616
00:30:24,830 --> 00:30:22,080
you ufology and Hollywood keep like

617
00:30:27,850 --> 00:30:24,840
cross-pollinating and and influencing

618
00:30:32,450 --> 00:30:27,860
each other in a really interesting way

619
00:30:35,210 --> 00:30:32,460
uh that goes beyond the idea of just

620
00:30:38,810 --> 00:30:35,220
Hollywood writers paying attention to to

621
00:30:41,870 --> 00:30:38,820
you know the UFO phenomenon

622
00:30:43,789 --> 00:30:41,880
and because of that I started to

623
00:30:46,789 --> 00:30:43,799
correspond with Robbie

624
00:30:50,029 --> 00:30:46,799
you know be a via email

625
00:30:52,669 --> 00:30:50,039
he asked me at one point to contribute

626
00:30:53,690 --> 00:30:52,679
with a few guest articles for his uh

627
00:30:56,750 --> 00:30:53,700
blog

628
00:30:59,450 --> 00:30:56,760
and I wrote about this really cool

629
00:31:02,930 --> 00:30:59,460
Spanish movie that I highly recommend

630
00:31:06,649 --> 00:31:02,940
called latillos volantes

631
00:31:09,350 --> 00:31:06,659
which is about these guys in the in

632
00:31:11,289 --> 00:31:09,360
Spain in the 1970s and this is based on

633
00:31:15,470 --> 00:31:11,299
an actual real case

634
00:31:18,850 --> 00:31:15,480
these two men committed suicide in the

635
00:31:20,630 --> 00:31:18,860
most horrific manner like this

636
00:31:25,549 --> 00:31:20,640
lay down

637
00:31:28,490 --> 00:31:25,559
on the track of uh you know train

638
00:31:30,130 --> 00:31:28,500
and they let the train decapitate them

639
00:31:32,510 --> 00:31:30,140
and

640
00:31:36,049 --> 00:31:32,520
the reason that the story became famous

641
00:31:38,210 --> 00:31:36,059
is because uh they found a letter in the

642
00:31:40,190 --> 00:31:38,220
pocket the breast pocket of one of these

643
00:31:43,970 --> 00:31:40,200
men who were wearing you know

644
00:31:46,610 --> 00:31:43,980
uh form of suits and they were saying

645
00:31:49,190 --> 00:31:46,620
you know like the space brothers are

646
00:31:51,710 --> 00:31:49,200
beckoning us we belong to the stars or

647
00:31:54,769 --> 00:31:51,720
something like that so I I really wanted

648
00:31:56,450 --> 00:31:54,779
to write something about this this movie

649
00:31:59,210 --> 00:31:56,460
that which is really cool and

650
00:32:02,389 --> 00:31:59,220
unfortunately I don't think it's uh

651
00:32:05,029 --> 00:32:02,399
known in English-speaking countries

652
00:32:09,529 --> 00:32:05,039
and I wrote a few other articles and

653
00:32:13,130 --> 00:32:09,539
because of that and because also I I was

654
00:32:17,149 --> 00:32:13,140
trying back back in those days to like

655
00:32:19,370 --> 00:32:17,159
make Robbie come into our fold of

656
00:32:22,190 --> 00:32:19,380
excluded middle ears or people who were

657
00:32:25,330 --> 00:32:22,200
no longer interested in the nuts and

658
00:32:27,830 --> 00:32:25,340
bolts or ET angle of the UFO phenomenon

659
00:32:30,769 --> 00:32:27,840
uh I remember I remember Robbie back

660
00:32:35,690 --> 00:32:30,779
then was full-on not some Bolter full-on

661
00:32:36,669 --> 00:32:35,700
uh believer in disclosure he even

662
00:32:40,269 --> 00:32:36,679
um

663
00:32:43,850 --> 00:32:40,279
acquiesce me or convince me to to

664
00:32:47,930 --> 00:32:43,860
participate in that uh I don't know if

665
00:32:51,169 --> 00:32:47,940
you remember that uh open online uh

666
00:32:53,570 --> 00:32:51,179
petition that that was opening in

667
00:32:56,269 --> 00:32:53,580
Obama's administration in the White

668
00:33:00,769 --> 00:32:56,279
House yes that will you know Gathering

669
00:33:04,010 --> 00:33:00,779
signatures uh to to ask the Obama

670
00:33:06,169 --> 00:33:04,020
Administration to complain about what

671
00:33:10,549 --> 00:33:06,179
they knew about uh UFOs this is

672
00:33:12,490 --> 00:33:10,559
something that was uh organized by uh

673
00:33:15,649 --> 00:33:12,500
what's the name of this guy

674
00:33:17,330 --> 00:33:15,659
was it Steve Bassett the Steve Bassett

675
00:33:20,990 --> 00:33:17,340
yeah yeah the problem with that petition

676
00:33:23,810 --> 00:33:21,000
it was sorry but it was so poorly

677
00:33:26,210 --> 00:33:23,820
poorly written like

678
00:33:29,149 --> 00:33:26,220
we want to know what the government

679
00:33:32,690 --> 00:33:29,159
knows about extraterrestrial visitation

680
00:33:35,690 --> 00:33:32,700
okay you are already assuming that UFO

681
00:33:38,269 --> 00:33:35,700
sorry structural so Striker you know and

682
00:33:41,889 --> 00:33:38,279
number two that you think that the

683
00:33:43,430 --> 00:33:41,899
government knows all about you know said

684
00:33:46,789 --> 00:33:43,440
activity

685
00:33:50,330 --> 00:33:46,799
and because he had gathered some so many

686
00:33:53,870 --> 00:33:50,340
signatures over five thousand the White

687
00:33:56,509 --> 00:33:53,880
House was forced to actually you know uh

688
00:34:00,289 --> 00:33:56,519
say something but they came up with you

689
00:34:02,450 --> 00:34:00,299
know the usual land base now we don't

690
00:34:04,990 --> 00:34:02,460
know anything about that we were not

691
00:34:07,610 --> 00:34:05,000
we're not investigating you for activity

692
00:34:10,369 --> 00:34:07,620
case closed and the only thing that came

693
00:34:13,730 --> 00:34:10,379
out of that is that the next petitions

694
00:34:16,609 --> 00:34:13,740
had to go over that threshold that you

695
00:34:19,190 --> 00:34:16,619
know from now on it's going to be uh

696
00:34:21,889 --> 00:34:19,200
over 5 000 signatures you know thanks to

697
00:34:23,629 --> 00:34:21,899
the beautiful weirdos you know they

698
00:34:25,790 --> 00:34:23,639
managed to gather

699
00:34:28,430 --> 00:34:25,800
you know I managed to get us embarrassed

700
00:34:29,990 --> 00:34:28,440
with with this you so anyway getting

701
00:34:32,149 --> 00:34:30,000
back to Robin

702
00:34:34,369 --> 00:34:32,159
I guess that's the reason why Robbie

703
00:34:37,490 --> 00:34:34,379
when he came up with the idea of writing

704
00:34:41,570 --> 00:34:37,500
or editing this anthology of different

705
00:34:44,389 --> 00:34:41,580
essays about UFO was he invited me and

706
00:34:48,589 --> 00:34:44,399
he invited all of our common friends you

707
00:34:52,430 --> 00:34:48,599
know great Bishop you Joshua coaching uh

708
00:34:54,349 --> 00:34:52,440
Susan Demeter Jack Brewer because he and

709
00:34:57,530 --> 00:34:54,359
this is something that I really applaud

710
00:34:58,930 --> 00:34:57,540
about this book it gathers so many

711
00:35:03,530 --> 00:34:58,940
different

712
00:35:07,370 --> 00:35:03,540
opinions about UFOs from the um from the

713
00:35:09,890 --> 00:35:07,380
borderline skeptic like you know this is

714
00:35:12,050 --> 00:35:09,900
most of this is about nonsense to the

715
00:35:15,109 --> 00:35:12,060
people who are in the really nuts and

716
00:35:18,170 --> 00:35:15,119
bolts you know only science can can

717
00:35:22,250 --> 00:35:18,180
investigate your fourth Camp to more

718
00:35:25,270 --> 00:35:22,260
people were who were dabbling with the

719
00:35:27,470 --> 00:35:25,280
what we will call the love and light

720
00:35:31,849 --> 00:35:27,480
aspect of the phenomenal Mike Cleveland

721
00:35:34,730 --> 00:35:31,859
around Michaela is proud to say he's not

722
00:35:38,270 --> 00:35:34,740
a UFO investigator he's not a scientist

723
00:35:41,390 --> 00:35:38,280
he's only interested in developing with

724
00:35:43,130 --> 00:35:41,400
you know how the phenomenon has affected

725
00:35:46,130 --> 00:35:43,140
people like him you know with his

726
00:35:47,390 --> 00:35:46,140
experience and have you know it goes

727
00:35:51,349 --> 00:35:47,400
beyond

728
00:35:53,870 --> 00:35:51,359
the idea of you know little scientists

729
00:35:56,450 --> 00:35:53,880
coming to this planet on metal craft to

730
00:36:00,170 --> 00:35:56,460
perform experiments yeah okay so how do

731
00:36:03,470 --> 00:36:00,180
you explain that with you know the

732
00:36:07,370 --> 00:36:03,480
shamanic like experiences that Mike and

733
00:36:11,390 --> 00:36:07,380
others have had with owls that are

734
00:36:13,190 --> 00:36:11,400
strongly strongly related to UFOs you

735
00:36:17,930 --> 00:36:13,200
know anyway

736
00:36:20,810 --> 00:36:17,940
I when I when I first uh was proposed

737
00:36:23,270 --> 00:36:20,820
this I say okay you know now here's my

738
00:36:24,950 --> 00:36:23,280
chance I've never I had never written

739
00:36:26,390 --> 00:36:24,960
anything I've never written a book and

740
00:36:28,849 --> 00:36:26,400
this is something you know about Ryan

741
00:36:32,030 --> 00:36:28,859
you spent a few years in the UFO

742
00:36:33,849 --> 00:36:32,040
phenomena people always say okay so when

743
00:36:37,010 --> 00:36:33,859
are you going to write a book because

744
00:36:39,250 --> 00:36:37,020
you don't become a real ufologist unless

745
00:36:42,770 --> 00:36:39,260
you have your name

746
00:36:46,069 --> 00:36:42,780
of course right that's the right of

747
00:36:49,370 --> 00:36:46,079
passage yeah like Peter Robin says you

748
00:36:53,030 --> 00:36:49,380
know you you you clap you you click your

749
00:36:54,770 --> 00:36:53,040
heels you touch your nose you go a trail

750
00:36:58,270 --> 00:36:54,780
you're an apologist

751
00:37:04,849 --> 00:37:01,569
uh Google gobble one of us one of us

752
00:37:06,470 --> 00:37:04,859
exactly so I said okay let's let's do

753
00:37:08,089 --> 00:37:06,480
this let's write let's write a message

754
00:37:09,530 --> 00:37:08,099
and I thought about it what can I say

755
00:37:13,130 --> 00:37:09,540
what can I say

756
00:37:15,710 --> 00:37:13,140
and I came to this conclusion after

757
00:37:18,829 --> 00:37:15,720
reading a lot of McKenna and after you

758
00:37:21,890 --> 00:37:18,839
know ballet and junk Hill I said well

759
00:37:24,710 --> 00:37:21,900
the one underlying Factor about UFOs

760
00:37:28,670 --> 00:37:24,720
that nobody seemed to to pay attention

761
00:37:32,210 --> 00:37:28,680
to is the anarchical nature of the UFO

762
00:37:34,550 --> 00:37:32,220
phenomenon the the how it is so

763
00:37:38,210 --> 00:37:34,560
anti-establishment

764
00:37:40,510 --> 00:37:38,220
in its in its nature in in the way it

765
00:37:45,490 --> 00:37:40,520
behaves in the way it affects society

766
00:37:49,550 --> 00:37:45,500
which is all the more uh ironic because

767
00:37:52,370 --> 00:37:49,560
now what everybody is asking is that the

768
00:37:54,470 --> 00:37:52,380
establishment pays attention pay

769
00:37:56,450 --> 00:37:54,480
attention to the UFO phenomena and not

770
00:37:59,030 --> 00:37:56,460
only that to so we are asking the

771
00:38:02,810 --> 00:37:59,040
government under establishment to solve

772
00:38:05,150 --> 00:38:02,820
the UFO problem for us you know right so

773
00:38:07,930 --> 00:38:05,160
you're asking the more Square people as

774
00:38:11,990 --> 00:38:07,940
people the more bureaucratic the more

775
00:38:15,650 --> 00:38:12,000
red tape uh conscious people in the

776
00:38:17,750 --> 00:38:15,660
world to go and Tackle something that is

777
00:38:20,829 --> 00:38:17,760
doesn't give a [\h__\h]

778
00:38:25,069 --> 00:38:20,839
about red tape about rules

779
00:38:30,109 --> 00:38:25,079
bureaucracy you know uh memos

780
00:38:33,890 --> 00:38:30,119
uh need to know you know the UFO does

781
00:38:36,349 --> 00:38:33,900
not respect any borders do UFO does does

782
00:38:38,329 --> 00:38:36,359
not respect any rules it doesn't respect

783
00:38:40,370 --> 00:38:38,339
the rule of gravity you know the law of

784
00:38:42,349 --> 00:38:40,380
gravity is something that the overall

785
00:38:45,410 --> 00:38:42,359
phenomenon marks and this is something

786
00:38:49,609 --> 00:38:45,420
that people like Terence McKenna said

787
00:38:52,970 --> 00:38:49,619
before us there is a wonderful uh

788
00:38:54,589 --> 00:38:52,980
speech he gave and at the angels and

789
00:38:58,250 --> 00:38:54,599
Aliens conference I think it happened in

790
00:39:01,010 --> 00:38:58,260
the 1980s and I quoted that uh speech

791
00:39:03,589 --> 00:39:01,020
for my for my essay you can find it on

792
00:39:07,069 --> 00:39:03,599
YouTube by the way and he says that you

793
00:39:11,150 --> 00:39:07,079
know the oval phenomenon is kind of like

794
00:39:16,250 --> 00:39:11,160
the assertion of the goddess manifesting

795
00:39:18,790 --> 00:39:16,260
into our world to say to to say to you

796
00:39:22,010 --> 00:39:18,800
know like the the

797
00:39:23,030 --> 00:39:22,020
academicians and like the the priests of

798
00:39:26,569 --> 00:39:23,040
science

799
00:39:29,870 --> 00:39:26,579
hold on you've gone far enough

800
00:39:32,510 --> 00:39:29,880
with your little ideas and your little

801
00:39:36,530 --> 00:39:32,520
models of the universe that you think

802
00:39:39,050 --> 00:39:36,540
are so cute and that are so precious and

803
00:39:39,910 --> 00:39:39,060
we're just gonna come here and we're

804
00:39:45,069 --> 00:39:39,920
gonna

805
00:39:48,470 --> 00:39:45,079
turn it to pieces in front of your eyes

806
00:39:51,010 --> 00:39:48,480
and we're gonna go and show that your

807
00:39:55,130 --> 00:39:51,020
science is nothing more than a sort of

808
00:39:58,630 --> 00:39:55,140
little limiting rules that are only

809
00:40:00,890 --> 00:39:58,640
useful to create toys

810
00:40:03,530 --> 00:40:00,900
for the rich

811
00:40:05,930 --> 00:40:03,540
you know and and I was like yeah [\h__\h]

812
00:40:08,930 --> 00:40:05,940
yeah you know this is the kind of stuff

813
00:40:11,450 --> 00:40:08,940
that that that maybe one of the reasons

814
00:40:13,670 --> 00:40:11,460
why I love the UFO phenomenon so much is

815
00:40:15,410 --> 00:40:13,680
because deep down I'm also an anarchist

816
00:40:19,030 --> 00:40:15,420
and I think that people who are

817
00:40:22,390 --> 00:40:19,040
interested in UFOs have a deep

818
00:40:24,310 --> 00:40:22,400
uh iconoclastic

819
00:40:27,770 --> 00:40:24,320
anti-structural

820
00:40:28,730 --> 00:40:27,780
anti-hierarchical attitude you know and

821
00:40:33,349 --> 00:40:28,740
and

822
00:40:36,230 --> 00:40:33,359
which is why when I see uvologists who

823
00:40:39,109 --> 00:40:36,240
think they they're they're one goal in

824
00:40:41,870 --> 00:40:39,119
life will be to like be part of the

825
00:40:44,930 --> 00:40:41,880
system and and be respected by the

826
00:40:48,710 --> 00:40:44,940
system you know be be welcomed by the

827
00:40:52,790 --> 00:40:48,720
mainstream is like no that's not a role

828
00:40:55,750 --> 00:40:52,800
we're Outsiders and we we need to remain

829
00:40:59,450 --> 00:40:55,760
in the outside in order to keep

830
00:41:02,690 --> 00:40:59,460
attacking Society well attacking uh the

831
00:41:06,670 --> 00:41:02,700
the stupidity of society the stupidity

832
00:41:12,770 --> 00:41:10,910
ideas ideas that need to be attacked you

833
00:41:17,690 --> 00:41:12,780
know always you know you have to look

834
00:41:20,089 --> 00:41:17,700
into into a society and and if you know

835
00:41:22,849 --> 00:41:20,099
where where the society is festering

836
00:41:26,270 --> 00:41:22,859
because when you see that there are

837
00:41:29,569 --> 00:41:26,280
topics that you're not even allowed to

838
00:41:30,470 --> 00:41:29,579
to touch upon one example I can give is

839
00:41:37,329 --> 00:41:30,480
uh

840
00:41:40,970 --> 00:41:37,339
released TV series well Netflix series

841
00:41:42,890 --> 00:41:40,980
uh ancient apocalypse there were some

842
00:41:46,210 --> 00:41:42,900
people who went and attacked him and

843
00:41:49,849 --> 00:41:46,220
said this is the most dangerous TV show

844
00:41:51,349 --> 00:41:49,859
right now it's like really a TV show

845
00:41:53,750 --> 00:41:51,359
that is not even about I don't know

846
00:41:57,109 --> 00:41:53,760
pornography or about

847
00:42:00,290 --> 00:41:57,119
I don't know like uh you know horrible

848
00:42:02,270 --> 00:42:00,300
politics or about you know whatever you

849
00:42:04,609 --> 00:42:02,280
think you know like oh death metal

850
00:42:06,970 --> 00:42:04,619
whatever or drugs or something violent

851
00:42:09,609 --> 00:42:06,980
something that is corrupting uh

852
00:42:12,950 --> 00:42:09,619
children's Minds no it's about

853
00:42:15,650 --> 00:42:12,960
archeology and about uh you know

854
00:42:18,349 --> 00:42:15,660
proposing that well maybe there was a

855
00:42:22,430 --> 00:42:18,359
commentary impact that that ended a

856
00:42:24,710 --> 00:42:22,440
highly Advanced uh civilizations fifteen

857
00:42:25,910 --> 00:42:24,720
thousand years ago or now the the the

858
00:42:30,589 --> 00:42:25,920
most

859
00:42:33,050 --> 00:42:30,599
me a break is and it's not like uh

860
00:42:35,750 --> 00:42:33,060
Graham Hancock is 100 right about

861
00:42:36,530 --> 00:42:35,760
everything obviously he's not and I

862
00:42:40,130 --> 00:42:36,540
actually

863
00:42:43,370 --> 00:42:40,140
also will criticize the attitude he's

864
00:42:47,210 --> 00:42:43,380
taking today in which he is always going

865
00:42:49,790 --> 00:42:47,220
after the the archaeologist and painting

866
00:42:51,410 --> 00:42:49,800
them as the bodies or the villains in

867
00:42:53,569 --> 00:42:51,420
the story I don't think that's the right

868
00:42:56,810 --> 00:42:53,579
approach to do but at the same time I

869
00:42:59,390 --> 00:42:56,820
understand that after Decades of being

870
00:43:01,309 --> 00:42:59,400
constantly attacked constantly undermine

871
00:43:03,650 --> 00:43:01,319
constantly ridiculed

872
00:43:06,109 --> 00:43:03,660
the guy is

873
00:43:09,650 --> 00:43:06,119
finally trying to make a Victory lap

874
00:43:12,170 --> 00:43:09,660
after some of the ideas he's proposing

875
00:43:14,589 --> 00:43:12,180
is starting to get a certain validation

876
00:43:16,790 --> 00:43:14,599
you know the discovery of kobekli Tepe

877
00:43:19,609 --> 00:43:16,800
starting to getting more and more

878
00:43:21,470 --> 00:43:19,619
evidence of these commentary impact 15

879
00:43:25,250 --> 00:43:21,480
000 years ago that might have ended the

880
00:43:27,950 --> 00:43:25,260
younger driest uh Ice Age you know

881
00:43:31,670 --> 00:43:27,960
things like that so getting back to you

882
00:43:34,430 --> 00:43:31,680
UFOs UFOs was also uh uh a forbidden

883
00:43:36,770 --> 00:43:34,440
verboten topic not not too long ago

884
00:43:40,329 --> 00:43:36,780
let's remember what happened with James

885
00:43:43,550 --> 00:43:40,339
McDonald James McDonald this uh

886
00:43:47,210 --> 00:43:43,560
meteorologist that in the 1960s got

887
00:43:50,809 --> 00:43:47,220
interested in the UFO phenomenon when

888
00:43:54,650 --> 00:43:50,819
I'm requested to to to see the the Blue

889
00:43:56,870 --> 00:43:54,660
Book uh Air Force files and UFOs

890
00:43:59,329 --> 00:43:56,880
and because of that he learned about

891
00:44:01,730 --> 00:43:59,339
what happened with Robertson panel in

892
00:44:05,030 --> 00:44:01,740
1952 you know when the Robertson panel

893
00:44:07,849 --> 00:44:05,040
decided Well UFOs are dangerous because

894
00:44:11,089 --> 00:44:07,859
they distract people and they uh

895
00:44:13,609 --> 00:44:11,099
obfuscate uh the ability of the the

896
00:44:16,790 --> 00:44:13,619
government to respond to actual threats

897
00:44:19,190 --> 00:44:16,800
so let's let's better re-educate people

898
00:44:22,970 --> 00:44:19,200
into into thinking that UFOs are

899
00:44:26,089 --> 00:44:22,980
nonsense and and McDonald went and uh

900
00:44:28,250 --> 00:44:26,099
went after the Air Force when after also

901
00:44:29,870 --> 00:44:28,260
Allen heineck because heineck knew about

902
00:44:32,450 --> 00:44:29,880
Robert the Robertson panel but he

903
00:44:35,210 --> 00:44:32,460
decided to keep quiet in order not to

904
00:44:38,390 --> 00:44:35,220
compromise his uh Insider position

905
00:44:41,150 --> 00:44:38,400
because so we wouldn't be so he wouldn't

906
00:44:41,890 --> 00:44:41,160
cut off from like the source of

907
00:44:45,069 --> 00:44:41,900
information

908
00:44:49,910 --> 00:44:45,079
and and because of his interest in in

909
00:44:56,210 --> 00:44:49,920
UFOs he got attacked by people like uh

910
00:45:03,890 --> 00:44:59,870
no the other one uh our devil in the

911
00:45:09,790 --> 00:45:03,900
tarot card uh it starts with a K his

912
00:45:14,809 --> 00:45:09,800
last name oh oh uh oh gosh

913
00:45:21,829 --> 00:45:18,109
well he was attacked by Skeptics class

914
00:45:23,450 --> 00:45:21,839
Philip class right we did it and and

915
00:45:28,490 --> 00:45:23,460
because of that

916
00:45:30,290 --> 00:45:28,500
his life got

917
00:45:32,450 --> 00:45:30,300
possible Saints

918
00:45:35,990 --> 00:45:32,460
got kicked out of his job

919
00:45:38,210 --> 00:45:36,000
his marriage got ruined and and he ended

920
00:45:40,430 --> 00:45:38,220
up killing himself

921
00:45:44,569 --> 00:45:40,440
you know that's the reason why we chose

922
00:45:47,270 --> 00:45:44,579
uh by the way we chose uh McDonald to be

923
00:45:49,250 --> 00:45:47,280
our hand man in the in the tarot cards

924
00:45:52,309 --> 00:45:49,260
you know because he was you know he was

925
00:45:55,250 --> 00:45:52,319
in in in in in a lot of ways he was a

926
00:45:57,230 --> 00:45:55,260
martyr for the UFO cause

927
00:46:00,470 --> 00:45:57,240
nowadays you don't you don't see that

928
00:46:04,069 --> 00:46:00,480
but still you you you can get out into a

929
00:46:06,890 --> 00:46:04,079
lot of uh trouble within certain circles

930
00:46:09,290 --> 00:46:06,900
if you openly talk about UFOs

931
00:46:11,930 --> 00:46:09,300
particularly the topics about UFOs that

932
00:46:14,210 --> 00:46:11,940
nobody wants to pay attention even even

933
00:46:16,190 --> 00:46:14,220
even people who believe in UFOs are

934
00:46:18,710 --> 00:46:16,200
uncomfortable when you talk about you

935
00:46:22,370 --> 00:46:18,720
know abductions on where you talk about

936
00:46:23,930 --> 00:46:22,380
maybe the relationship between UFOs and

937
00:46:25,190 --> 00:46:23,940
Consciousness a relationship between

938
00:46:28,550 --> 00:46:25,200
UFOs

939
00:46:31,430 --> 00:46:28,560
this is something that people uh

940
00:46:32,750 --> 00:46:31,440
who are in the nuts and bolts Camp they

941
00:46:37,130 --> 00:46:32,760
don't want to hear about that they only

942
00:46:40,670 --> 00:46:37,140
want to hear about uh radar returns and

943
00:46:43,250 --> 00:46:40,680
and and infrared videos and the

944
00:46:45,890 --> 00:46:43,260
testimony of pilots and maybe the meta

945
00:46:47,870 --> 00:46:45,900
materials and whatnot but you start to

946
00:46:50,030 --> 00:46:47,880
think you start to say like yeah you

947
00:46:55,230 --> 00:46:50,040
know someone had a UFO experience and

948
00:46:59,690 --> 00:46:57,430
[Music]

949
00:47:03,829 --> 00:46:59,700
yeah exactly

950
00:47:06,530 --> 00:47:03,839
yeah well there's so many avenues that

951
00:47:08,630 --> 00:47:06,540
could go down Migo um but you brought up

952
00:47:10,790 --> 00:47:08,640
a word that keeps sticking out to me

953
00:47:14,150 --> 00:47:10,800
when it comes to Anarchy and that's

954
00:47:17,450 --> 00:47:14,160
chaos you know kind of what um needs to

955
00:47:22,309 --> 00:47:17,460
happen in order for Anarchy to uh Thrive

956
00:47:24,770 --> 00:47:22,319
to survive to uh succeed even and uh you

957
00:47:27,950 --> 00:47:24,780
bring you brought up in the essay this

958
00:47:31,190 --> 00:47:27,960
idea that UFO sightings anomalous

959
00:47:34,069 --> 00:47:31,200
experiences paranormal uh Poltergeist to

960
00:47:37,309 --> 00:47:34,079
be specific uh often happen in chaotic

961
00:47:41,089 --> 00:47:37,319
moments uh you know in someone's life or

962
00:47:43,370 --> 00:47:41,099
uh uh in in times of turmoil and that's

963
00:47:46,430 --> 00:47:43,380
when you see a lot of activity happening

964
00:47:48,589 --> 00:47:46,440
with the UFO phenomenon so I guess my

965
00:47:51,109 --> 00:47:48,599
question for you would be in terms of

966
00:47:55,430 --> 00:47:51,119
the essay Anarchy in the UFO and this

967
00:47:58,010 --> 00:47:55,440
idea of uh turmoil whether external or

968
00:48:00,710 --> 00:47:58,020
internal uh what does that mean to you

969
00:48:04,309 --> 00:48:00,720
why do you think that is that a lot of

970
00:48:07,490 --> 00:48:04,319
this stuff seems to conjure itself up in

971
00:48:10,550 --> 00:48:07,500
great times of turmoil or or or even

972
00:48:12,109 --> 00:48:10,560
chaos I guess if that's what I'm if I'm

973
00:48:15,410 --> 00:48:12,119
kind of interpreting what you were

974
00:48:18,109 --> 00:48:15,420
writing right correct yeah well it

975
00:48:21,770 --> 00:48:18,119
remains an open question to me whether

976
00:48:26,510 --> 00:48:21,780
the UFO phenomenon comes from

977
00:48:29,630 --> 00:48:26,520
outside of us or comes from inside of us

978
00:48:31,730 --> 00:48:29,640
and obviously to a Mystic that question

979
00:48:34,190 --> 00:48:31,740
becomes irrelevant you know a mystery

980
00:48:36,410 --> 00:48:34,200
comes to the realization well there's no

981
00:48:39,290 --> 00:48:36,420
it's the inside and it is now outside it

982
00:48:42,410 --> 00:48:39,300
just is everything everything is

983
00:48:46,730 --> 00:48:42,420
interrelated with everything else

984
00:48:51,589 --> 00:48:49,010
I don't think we're paying enough

985
00:48:54,829 --> 00:48:51,599
attention to

986
00:48:59,630 --> 00:48:54,839
the power of the human mind

987
00:49:03,710 --> 00:48:59,640
and the way the human mind can have

988
00:49:05,750 --> 00:49:03,720
an influence not only in ourselves

989
00:49:09,530 --> 00:49:05,760
but also

990
00:49:12,770 --> 00:49:09,540
in the physical world that we inhabit

991
00:49:15,470 --> 00:49:12,780
like for example

992
00:49:18,230 --> 00:49:15,480
everybody has heard of the phenomenon

993
00:49:20,690 --> 00:49:18,240
called known as stigmata

994
00:49:22,210 --> 00:49:20,700
this is something that is very common

995
00:49:25,910 --> 00:49:22,220
among

996
00:49:30,710 --> 00:49:25,920
Catholic saints like Saint Francis of

997
00:49:35,870 --> 00:49:30,720
Assisi I think he was the first known uh

998
00:49:37,490 --> 00:49:35,880
Saint or Mystic who after having like a

999
00:49:40,130 --> 00:49:37,500
vision

1000
00:49:42,290 --> 00:49:40,140
like and actually if you if you read the

1001
00:49:43,910 --> 00:49:42,300
accounts and and you see the way that is

1002
00:49:47,150 --> 00:49:43,920
being depicted in art

1003
00:49:49,910 --> 00:49:47,160
uh Diana pasuka you know has has shown

1004
00:49:52,010 --> 00:49:49,920
this to to her students and they say

1005
00:49:54,050 --> 00:49:52,020
well this is a UFO event you know some

1006
00:49:56,930 --> 00:49:54,060
guys saw something in the sky and and

1007
00:49:59,210 --> 00:49:56,940
and there's something in the sky

1008
00:50:02,589 --> 00:49:59,220
shut down some kind of like Ray into

1009
00:50:05,690 --> 00:50:02,599
into into him and after that some some

1010
00:50:08,870 --> 00:50:05,700
uh wounds started to manifest in his

1011
00:50:10,490 --> 00:50:08,880
body wounds that are perpetually

1012
00:50:14,109 --> 00:50:10,500
mimicking

1013
00:50:17,210 --> 00:50:14,119
the wounds inflicted to Christ when he

1014
00:50:20,569 --> 00:50:17,220
died on the cross you know the nails

1015
00:50:22,849 --> 00:50:20,579
that pierced through his hands and

1016
00:50:26,450 --> 00:50:22,859
through his ankles and also the wound in

1017
00:50:30,470 --> 00:50:26,460
his chest and and in his uh forehead

1018
00:50:33,710 --> 00:50:30,480
when he was uh put the the crown of

1019
00:50:36,730 --> 00:50:33,720
thorns although interestingly enough now

1020
00:50:42,349 --> 00:50:36,740
when we know that the instant romance

1021
00:50:44,990 --> 00:50:42,359
didn't actually uh conduct uh execution

1022
00:50:50,510 --> 00:50:45,000
by crucifixion in that particular manner

1023
00:50:54,109 --> 00:50:50,520
like if you are going to hang uh an

1024
00:50:55,930 --> 00:50:54,119
adult on uh on a cross on a wooden cross

1025
00:51:00,230 --> 00:50:55,940
you don't

1026
00:51:03,589 --> 00:51:00,240
peers and the nail through uh the bones

1027
00:51:05,630 --> 00:51:03,599
of the Palm because these are too

1028
00:51:07,430 --> 00:51:05,640
fragile too brittle they wouldn't be

1029
00:51:11,930 --> 00:51:07,440
able to withstand

1030
00:51:14,569 --> 00:51:11,940
the full uh weight of the body it's

1031
00:51:17,030 --> 00:51:14,579
better to do it here

1032
00:51:20,470 --> 00:51:17,040
you know but nevertheless the the the

1033
00:51:24,470 --> 00:51:20,480
the the wounds of the Stigmata people

1034
00:51:26,809 --> 00:51:24,480
appear more often here so what I'm going

1035
00:51:30,230 --> 00:51:26,819
with that is that this is

1036
00:51:33,470 --> 00:51:30,240
this is one example of the incredible

1037
00:51:34,609 --> 00:51:33,480
power of the human mind in our bodies

1038
00:51:36,290 --> 00:51:34,619
and

1039
00:51:38,870 --> 00:51:36,300
now that we're talking about the

1040
00:51:40,730 --> 00:51:38,880
Stigmata what let's talk about something

1041
00:51:44,450 --> 00:51:40,740
like alien implants what if alien

1042
00:51:45,910 --> 00:51:44,460
implants are a form of stigmata or are

1043
00:51:48,290 --> 00:51:45,920
some kind of like

1044
00:51:50,329 --> 00:51:48,300
manifestation that that the body

1045
00:51:51,470 --> 00:51:50,339
produces some kind of like foreign

1046
00:51:55,609 --> 00:51:51,480
object

1047
00:51:58,130 --> 00:51:55,619
that is just the product of one's strong

1048
00:52:00,290 --> 00:51:58,140
belief that you were abducted by aliens

1049
00:52:02,390 --> 00:52:00,300
and the aliens left something within

1050
00:52:04,510 --> 00:52:02,400
your body you know maybe the same way

1051
00:52:07,430 --> 00:52:04,520
that the body is capable of

1052
00:52:10,309 --> 00:52:07,440
rupturing the skin and the blood vessels

1053
00:52:13,190 --> 00:52:10,319
to create this wound in the form of the

1054
00:52:15,890 --> 00:52:13,200
womb of Christ maybe you you also get to

1055
00:52:20,150 --> 00:52:15,900
to create some kind of like foreign

1056
00:52:22,069 --> 00:52:20,160
object uh in your arms or you know in

1057
00:52:23,329 --> 00:52:22,079
your ear love whatever

1058
00:52:26,049 --> 00:52:23,339
uh

1059
00:52:29,690 --> 00:52:26,059
but not only that because people

1060
00:52:31,430 --> 00:52:29,700
said we have yeah we well about that we

1061
00:52:35,030 --> 00:52:31,440
know about the placebo effect and all

1062
00:52:39,049 --> 00:52:35,040
that but that doesn't explain UFOs well

1063
00:52:41,569 --> 00:52:39,059
maybe it does uh another wonderful

1064
00:52:44,630 --> 00:52:41,579
example of this is the Philip experiment

1065
00:52:47,809 --> 00:52:44,640
that happened in the 1970s in Canada

1066
00:52:51,290 --> 00:52:47,819
these Pro psychologists they wanted to

1067
00:52:55,010 --> 00:52:51,300
to create a fake ghost you know and in

1068
00:52:57,890 --> 00:52:55,020
order to do that they they created a

1069
00:53:00,770 --> 00:52:57,900
very elaborate backstory of these

1070
00:53:02,930 --> 00:53:00,780
totally fictitious person that in their

1071
00:53:06,950 --> 00:53:02,940
experiment was going to be the ghost

1072
00:53:09,470 --> 00:53:06,960
they were going to contact a a a man by

1073
00:53:11,210 --> 00:53:09,480
the name Philip who lived hundreds of

1074
00:53:13,790 --> 00:53:11,220
years ago in England or something to

1075
00:53:17,270 --> 00:53:13,800
that effect and they even created a a

1076
00:53:20,650 --> 00:53:17,280
fake portrait of him and they started to

1077
00:53:23,809 --> 00:53:20,660
have these uh like

1078
00:53:26,569 --> 00:53:23,819
seances you know fake senses

1079
00:53:28,790 --> 00:53:26,579
uh in order to try to see if something

1080
00:53:30,470 --> 00:53:28,800
happened and at first they weren't

1081
00:53:32,630 --> 00:53:30,480
having a lot of success but they

1082
00:53:34,970 --> 00:53:32,640
persisted they changed a bit they

1083
00:53:37,130 --> 00:53:34,980
started to make it look more like a

1084
00:53:38,930 --> 00:53:37,140
traditional sense like lighting the

1085
00:53:41,210 --> 00:53:38,940
candles in a dark room or something like

1086
00:53:43,790 --> 00:53:41,220
that they started to use their rituals

1087
00:53:46,190 --> 00:53:43,800
you know in order to fake their own

1088
00:53:48,910 --> 00:53:46,200
minds into getting into this attitude

1089
00:53:51,710 --> 00:53:48,920
and that's when they started to get

1090
00:53:53,870 --> 00:53:51,720
tangible results like the table started

1091
00:53:56,349 --> 00:53:53,880
to you know jump and down and levitate

1092
00:53:59,329 --> 00:53:56,359
and and they started to to

1093
00:54:02,150 --> 00:53:59,339
Poltergeist like activity you know

1094
00:54:04,490 --> 00:54:02,160
that's it and how do you

1095
00:54:07,150 --> 00:54:04,500
how do you

1096
00:54:09,890 --> 00:54:07,160
explain that you know

1097
00:54:13,670 --> 00:54:09,900
that's something that shows that the

1098
00:54:17,450 --> 00:54:13,680
human mind is more powerful than we give

1099
00:54:20,450 --> 00:54:17,460
it any credit to and it and it's

1100
00:54:24,670 --> 00:54:20,460
fascinating how if you go into this they

1101
00:54:26,990 --> 00:54:24,680
study the history of remote viewing SRI

1102
00:54:30,770 --> 00:54:27,000
and all the people who got involved with

1103
00:54:34,190 --> 00:54:30,780
it a lot of those people also reported

1104
00:54:36,650 --> 00:54:34,200
having UFO experiences on of Their Own

1105
00:54:37,549 --> 00:54:36,660
you know and there was even people like

1106
00:54:40,609 --> 00:54:37,559
uh

1107
00:54:44,270 --> 00:54:40,619
Ted Owens the PK man someone's who he

1108
00:54:46,670 --> 00:54:44,280
was someone who was investigated by Dr

1109
00:54:49,790 --> 00:54:46,680
Jeffrey mishlov who is an American

1110
00:54:52,730 --> 00:54:49,800
toxicologist has a wonderful uh YouTube

1111
00:54:54,109 --> 00:54:52,740
channel uh new thinking allowed that I

1112
00:54:58,010 --> 00:54:54,119
highly recommend

1113
00:55:01,910 --> 00:54:58,020
uh and he investigated Ted Owens you

1114
00:55:04,430 --> 00:55:01,920
know and and he uh confirmed that many

1115
00:55:06,770 --> 00:55:04,440
of the things that he that this person

1116
00:55:09,290 --> 00:55:06,780
claimed happened you know when he

1117
00:55:10,970 --> 00:55:09,300
predicted you know UFO activity that

1118
00:55:13,430 --> 00:55:10,980
will happen on a certain area and at any

1119
00:55:16,130 --> 00:55:13,440
time and yeah people reported UFO

1120
00:55:18,829 --> 00:55:16,140
sightings or where he reported he he

1121
00:55:21,549 --> 00:55:18,839
claimed that he will use his contact

1122
00:55:25,490 --> 00:55:21,559
with alien intelligence as in order to

1123
00:55:28,309 --> 00:55:25,500
bring rain in an area that was stricken

1124
00:55:29,990 --> 00:55:28,319
by drought and yeah you know

1125
00:55:57,370 --> 00:55:30,000
a

1126
00:56:01,010 --> 00:55:57,380
these uh

1127
00:56:02,930 --> 00:56:01,020
psychic activity macro psychic activity

1128
00:56:05,450 --> 00:56:02,940
that

1129
00:56:07,870 --> 00:56:05,460
to an outside person it will be

1130
00:56:11,329 --> 00:56:07,880
indistinguishable from

1131
00:56:13,730 --> 00:56:11,339
real quote-unquote UFO activity and then

1132
00:56:17,270 --> 00:56:13,740
obviously it begs the question what is

1133
00:56:19,849 --> 00:56:17,280
real UFO quiz activity and what what is

1134
00:56:22,730 --> 00:56:19,859
is it something that's come from outside

1135
00:56:25,549 --> 00:56:22,740
of us you know that is controlled by an

1136
00:56:27,530 --> 00:56:25,559
outside intelligence or is it something

1137
00:56:29,569 --> 00:56:27,540
that is actually we are tricking

1138
00:56:32,450 --> 00:56:29,579
ourselves you know we just we don't we

1139
00:56:36,470 --> 00:56:32,460
just don't know it Terence McKenna

1140
00:56:40,549 --> 00:56:36,480
famously said that the modern man is so

1141
00:56:42,650 --> 00:56:40,559
detached from his soul then when you

1142
00:56:44,690 --> 00:56:42,660
encounter your soul you think you're

1143
00:56:46,730 --> 00:56:44,700
having an alien encounter

1144
00:56:50,089 --> 00:56:46,740
and that is something that I think about

1145
00:56:52,490 --> 00:56:50,099
constantly like saying well what if

1146
00:56:54,170 --> 00:56:52,500
the other that we think that we are

1147
00:56:56,510 --> 00:56:54,180
trying to get in contact with is just

1148
00:57:00,670 --> 00:56:56,520
another aspect of ourselves that is so

1149
00:57:04,309 --> 00:57:00,680
detached from our modern way of living

1150
00:57:06,829 --> 00:57:04,319
that whenever we encounter it we think

1151
00:57:09,950 --> 00:57:06,839
it's from outer space

1152
00:57:11,809 --> 00:57:09,960
right well I mean you even have this

1153
00:57:13,970 --> 00:57:11,819
quote in the essay and I loved this

1154
00:57:16,790 --> 00:57:13,980
quote um you kind of started the essay

1155
00:57:19,370 --> 00:57:16,800
with this a disc once presumed to serve

1156
00:57:22,309 --> 00:57:19,380
as a vehicle for transversing outer

1157
00:57:25,849 --> 00:57:22,319
space became a mirror for surveying

1158
00:57:28,730 --> 00:57:25,859
Inner Space which is beautiful I I mean

1159
00:57:30,530 --> 00:57:28,740
it it kind of that really resonated with

1160
00:57:33,950 --> 00:57:30,540
me because I think it it touches on what

1161
00:57:36,650 --> 00:57:33,960
you were just saying like how much are

1162
00:57:38,870 --> 00:57:36,660
we the phenomena

1163
00:57:42,049 --> 00:57:38,880
that we're trying to pursue that we're

1164
00:57:43,490 --> 00:57:42,059
trying to unravel and um oh man you

1165
00:57:46,130 --> 00:57:43,500
bring up so many good points a lot of

1166
00:57:48,710 --> 00:57:46,140
what you said reminded me of like you

1167
00:57:51,109 --> 00:57:48,720
know Kenneth Arnold even you know a

1168
00:57:53,809 --> 00:57:51,119
misquote in a newspaper having seen

1169
00:57:55,670 --> 00:57:53,819
quote unquote flying saucers when in

1170
00:57:58,309 --> 00:57:55,680
reality that's not even what he really

1171
00:58:02,390 --> 00:57:58,319
saw uh everyone after that started

1172
00:58:04,670 --> 00:58:02,400
seeing flying saucers so I guess you

1173
00:58:06,349 --> 00:58:04,680
know you could take something like that

1174
00:58:08,990 --> 00:58:06,359
or you could take the idea of crop

1175
00:58:11,030 --> 00:58:09,000
circles I think you touched on this in

1176
00:58:13,130 --> 00:58:11,040
the essay as well you know while they

1177
00:58:16,190 --> 00:58:13,140
might be man-made

1178
00:58:18,650 --> 00:58:16,200
um the the intelligence behind it or

1179
00:58:22,010 --> 00:58:18,660
whatever is kind of pulling the strings

1180
00:58:25,430 --> 00:58:22,020
to make that happen could be something

1181
00:58:26,870 --> 00:58:25,440
non-human could be some sort of external

1182
00:58:28,730 --> 00:58:26,880
force or

1183
00:58:30,770 --> 00:58:28,740
um done through Consciousness that's

1184
00:58:33,230 --> 00:58:30,780
creating these extremely elaborate

1185
00:58:35,270 --> 00:58:33,240
designs in the crops

1186
00:58:37,730 --> 00:58:35,280
um even to like you said in the essay to

1187
00:58:41,750 --> 00:58:37,740
the dismay of the actual crop owners but

1188
00:58:45,349 --> 00:58:41,760
but yeah kind of this this idea of you

1189
00:58:47,150 --> 00:58:45,359
know manifesting the phenomena in in

1190
00:58:49,069 --> 00:58:47,160
some ways um do you think there's

1191
00:58:56,569 --> 00:58:49,079
anything to that in terms of those kind

1192
00:59:01,490 --> 00:58:58,849
the somewhere in the skies podcast is

1193
00:59:03,589 --> 00:59:01,500
free to listen to every week but if you

1194
00:59:06,470 --> 00:59:03,599
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1195
00:59:08,030 --> 00:59:06,480
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1196
00:59:10,670 --> 00:59:08,040
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1197
00:59:13,849 --> 00:59:10,680
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1198
00:59:17,030 --> 00:59:13,859
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1199
00:59:19,789 --> 00:59:17,040
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1200
00:59:23,030 --> 00:59:19,799
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1201
00:59:26,289 --> 00:59:23,040
show continue and grow so to learn more

1202
00:59:27,930 --> 00:59:26,299
and to join visit patreon.com

1203
00:59:29,750 --> 00:59:27,940
somewhere Skies

1204
00:59:35,870 --> 00:59:29,760
[Music]

1205
00:59:40,190 --> 00:59:38,630
more and more I keep thinking and this

1206
00:59:43,849 --> 00:59:40,200
is not something that

1207
00:59:46,250 --> 00:59:43,859
I'm the only one who thinks that way but

1208
00:59:55,190 --> 00:59:46,260
like

1209
00:59:56,329 --> 00:59:55,200
who believe in UFOs they hate the idea

1210
00:59:57,910 --> 00:59:56,339
of

1211
01:00:02,510 --> 00:59:57,920
you know

1212
01:00:05,150 --> 01:00:02,520
jokesters or con man hoaxing UFO videos

1213
01:00:07,010 --> 01:00:05,160
or UFO photographs because they say oh

1214
01:00:08,630 --> 01:00:07,020
well this is a distraction and it

1215
01:00:11,990 --> 01:00:08,640
undermines

1216
01:00:14,569 --> 01:00:12,000
the The credibility or the validity of

1217
01:00:16,190 --> 01:00:14,579
the UFO phenomenon and I underst I can

1218
01:00:17,930 --> 01:00:16,200
understand that but at the same time

1219
01:00:22,150 --> 01:00:17,940
nowadays

1220
01:00:24,650 --> 01:00:22,160
I I I suspect more and more that hoaxes

1221
01:00:26,690 --> 01:00:24,660
have a role to play

1222
01:00:31,010 --> 01:00:26,700
in all of these whether we like it or

1223
01:00:34,250 --> 01:00:31,020
not a complex very controversial and

1224
01:00:38,569 --> 01:00:34,260
very very difficult very very murky role

1225
01:00:41,150 --> 01:00:38,579
but a role nonetheless it's almost like

1226
01:00:44,329 --> 01:00:41,160
like UFO hoaxers are some kind of like

1227
01:00:47,630 --> 01:00:44,339
ufological placebo effect you know like

1228
01:00:50,690 --> 01:00:47,640
what happens if uh if a UFO hoax

1229
01:00:53,270 --> 01:00:50,700
actually manifests

1230
01:00:55,549 --> 01:00:53,280
uh true anomalous activity what happens

1231
01:00:59,030 --> 01:00:55,559
if I if someone

1232
01:01:02,410 --> 01:00:59,040
is driving and he sees something in the

1233
01:01:05,750 --> 01:01:02,420
sky he cannot explaining that he's a a

1234
01:01:08,390 --> 01:01:05,760
life-changing experience to them uh and

1235
01:01:10,789 --> 01:01:08,400
maybe you know 10 years from now they

1236
01:01:14,450 --> 01:01:10,799
real they realize oh it was just a drone

1237
01:01:15,349 --> 01:01:14,460
or it was just you know SpaceX rocket

1238
01:01:17,870 --> 01:01:15,359
launch

1239
01:01:20,390 --> 01:01:17,880
but nevertheless maybe you actually

1240
01:01:23,510 --> 01:01:20,400
trigger something in them you know opens

1241
01:01:25,130 --> 01:01:23,520
up something cracks open the cosmic egg

1242
01:01:28,849 --> 01:01:25,140
within them

1243
01:01:32,870 --> 01:01:28,859
to be open to the magic or to release

1244
01:01:36,349 --> 01:01:32,880
the magic within them you know so uh

1245
01:01:40,490 --> 01:01:36,359
the crop circles obviously hoaxes made

1246
01:01:42,829 --> 01:01:40,500
by by by people for whatever reason

1247
01:01:45,109 --> 01:01:42,839
but

1248
01:01:47,569 --> 01:01:45,119
I cannot deny that maybe people who who

1249
01:01:51,049 --> 01:01:47,579
have been in contact with crop circles

1250
01:01:54,490 --> 01:01:51,059
may have had a life-changing experiences

1251
01:01:59,650 --> 01:01:54,500
you know like incredible synchronicities

1252
01:02:02,809 --> 01:01:59,660
dreams uh Visions or even actual

1253
01:02:05,690 --> 01:02:02,819
manifestations of of of anomalous light

1254
01:02:08,510 --> 01:02:05,700
phenomena or time dilations

1255
01:02:11,809 --> 01:02:08,520
things that are common commonly reported

1256
01:02:14,930 --> 01:02:11,819
among crop circles and and crop circles

1257
01:02:17,450 --> 01:02:14,940
that someone you know deal with a plank

1258
01:02:21,230 --> 01:02:17,460
uh a few hours ago but nevertheless

1259
01:02:23,089 --> 01:02:21,240
actually creates creates the the magic

1260
01:02:25,849 --> 01:02:23,099
and and this is something that we have

1261
01:02:28,370 --> 01:02:25,859
to remember like even shamans

1262
01:02:31,569 --> 01:02:28,380
shamans are

1263
01:02:35,630 --> 01:02:31,579
professional tricksters you know like

1264
01:02:39,950 --> 01:02:35,640
anthropologists who went to see an

1265
01:02:43,490 --> 01:02:39,960
interview Maria Savina who was this uh

1266
01:02:46,789 --> 01:02:43,500
Masa Tech Shaman woman from Mexico who

1267
01:02:51,109 --> 01:02:46,799
lived in Oaxaca and who was the one who

1268
01:02:54,049 --> 01:02:51,119
showed the the American foreigners the

1269
01:02:56,270 --> 01:02:54,059
the thing about salocybin mushrooms you

1270
01:02:59,569 --> 01:02:56,280
know this is the thing that kick-started

1271
01:03:03,530 --> 01:02:59,579
the whole counterculture movement in the

1272
01:03:06,410 --> 01:03:03,540
1960s you know when when there was this

1273
01:03:10,970 --> 01:03:06,420
momentous article in Times magazine

1274
01:03:13,130 --> 01:03:10,980
about this this ritual sacred rituals

1275
01:03:16,190 --> 01:03:13,140
who were secret rituals you know because

1276
01:03:18,650 --> 01:03:16,200
this tradition was kept alive in Mexico

1277
01:03:21,289 --> 01:03:18,660
for hundreds of years away from the eyes

1278
01:03:24,049 --> 01:03:21,299
of the church otherwise you know the

1279
01:03:26,510 --> 01:03:24,059
Inquisition would have gone after you

1280
01:03:29,210 --> 01:03:26,520
know these practitioners but in the

1281
01:03:31,309 --> 01:03:29,220
1960s Maria Sabina said well you know I

1282
01:03:34,789 --> 01:03:31,319
had a vision of Jesus Christ who said

1283
01:03:37,069 --> 01:03:34,799
that time was right for foreigners or

1284
01:03:41,089 --> 01:03:37,079
for Outsiders to know about our sacred

1285
01:03:44,270 --> 01:03:41,099
rituals and this is like boom the

1286
01:03:47,930 --> 01:03:44,280
beginning of the new age the hippie

1287
01:03:49,970 --> 01:03:47,940
movement The Counter Culture you know uh

1288
01:03:52,309 --> 01:03:49,980
Timothy Leary

1289
01:03:54,589 --> 01:03:52,319
The Beatles we wouldn't have had the

1290
01:03:55,670 --> 01:03:54,599
Beatles if it wasn't for Maria Savina

1291
01:03:59,450 --> 01:03:55,680
it's just I'm saying you know Maria

1292
01:04:01,430 --> 01:03:59,460
zavina most influential Mexican woman in

1293
01:04:03,490 --> 01:04:01,440
the history of the world period but

1294
01:04:06,589 --> 01:04:03,500
getting back to

1295
01:04:08,870 --> 01:04:06,599
uh Maria Sabina you know anthropologists

1296
01:04:11,809 --> 01:04:08,880
went to to interview her and they

1297
01:04:15,349 --> 01:04:11,819
noticed how the she performed her her

1298
01:04:17,150 --> 01:04:15,359
rituals and and she they realized that

1299
01:04:19,370 --> 01:04:17,160
like any

1300
01:04:23,150 --> 01:04:19,380
shaman

1301
01:04:27,170 --> 01:04:23,160
she commonly used sleight of hand tricks

1302
01:04:29,030 --> 01:04:27,180
you know often among among uh her

1303
01:04:32,390 --> 01:04:29,040
audience you know like for example like

1304
01:04:33,250 --> 01:04:32,400
how to sheep put the candles on the on

1305
01:04:36,130 --> 01:04:33,260
the ground

1306
01:04:38,569 --> 01:04:36,140
in order to to

1307
01:04:40,670 --> 01:04:38,579
uh make them lose like she could

1308
01:04:44,170 --> 01:04:40,680
instantly put them uh in the ground

1309
01:04:47,510 --> 01:04:44,180
whereas ask another person to do it and

1310
01:04:49,849 --> 01:04:47,520
uh the candles weren't properly uh

1311
01:04:51,950 --> 01:04:49,859
prepared so they will fall and they

1312
01:04:53,809 --> 01:04:51,960
would it will show that oh Maria you

1313
01:04:56,089 --> 01:04:53,819
know has some kind of like Authority or

1314
01:05:00,650 --> 01:04:56,099
has some kind of power and that kind of

1315
01:05:05,030 --> 01:05:00,660
like uh suggestion is very important in

1316
01:05:06,309 --> 01:05:05,040
shamanic rituals in order for the the

1317
01:05:10,130 --> 01:05:06,319
patient

1318
01:05:13,789 --> 01:05:10,140
to getting this conducive state in this

1319
01:05:15,650 --> 01:05:13,799
right State of Mind in which they can

1320
01:05:17,510 --> 01:05:15,660
heal themselves because that's the thing

1321
01:05:20,089 --> 01:05:17,520
about Shamanism you know that's the

1322
01:05:22,549 --> 01:05:20,099
thing about shamanistic ritual practices

1323
01:05:24,890 --> 01:05:22,559
the shaman is not

1324
01:05:27,170 --> 01:05:24,900
killing the person the person is healing

1325
01:05:31,430 --> 01:05:27,180
themselves by allowing themselves to

1326
01:05:33,829 --> 01:05:31,440
enter into this mind space and obviously

1327
01:05:37,809 --> 01:05:33,839
the question is will we be able to

1328
01:05:40,730 --> 01:05:37,819
actually do that do the same if we

1329
01:05:45,049 --> 01:05:40,740
didn't need to trick ourselves into

1330
01:05:47,089 --> 01:05:45,059
using rituals and things and just using

1331
01:05:50,030 --> 01:05:47,099
the power of our minds well that's the

1332
01:05:51,890 --> 01:05:50,040
basics of chaos magic that became so

1333
01:05:54,410 --> 01:05:51,900
predominant in the 80s you know when

1334
01:05:56,390 --> 01:05:54,420
when all these people in The Counter

1335
01:05:59,270 --> 01:05:56,400
Culture they say well you know all these

1336
01:06:01,130 --> 01:05:59,280
stupid rituals in in traditional magic

1337
01:06:03,650 --> 01:06:01,140
let's just get rid of that and let's

1338
01:06:05,510 --> 01:06:03,660
just you know come up with our own uh

1339
01:06:08,870 --> 01:06:05,520
practice and our own ways because at the

1340
01:06:10,970 --> 01:06:08,880
end of the day it's it's only here that

1341
01:06:14,270 --> 01:06:10,980
that the magic happens is not in the in

1342
01:06:17,150 --> 01:06:14,280
the in the in the wand or in the robes

1343
01:06:19,849 --> 01:06:17,160
or in the candles or in the in the in

1344
01:06:21,770 --> 01:06:19,859
the incantations that that are said in

1345
01:06:24,829 --> 01:06:21,780
Latin or a Nokia or whatever you know

1346
01:06:27,650 --> 01:06:24,839
you can say that you can use uh you know

1347
01:06:30,589 --> 01:06:27,660
a Beatles song you know as a magic

1348
01:06:32,049 --> 01:06:30,599
incantation and if you believe in it it

1349
01:06:36,829 --> 01:06:32,059
works the same

1350
01:06:40,069 --> 01:06:36,839
uh so yeah I don't know I think that uh

1351
01:06:44,210 --> 01:06:40,079
getting back to hoses uh

1352
01:06:47,630 --> 01:06:44,220
one of my favorite cases uh happened in

1353
01:06:50,510 --> 01:06:47,640
in the 1960s through the 1970s and 80s

1354
01:06:54,109 --> 01:06:50,520
in countries like Spain and Latin

1355
01:06:55,970 --> 01:06:54,119
America is the the famous UMO affair

1356
01:07:02,809 --> 01:06:55,980
uh

1357
01:07:05,870 --> 01:07:02,819
a lot of researchers and and reporters

1358
01:07:08,270 --> 01:07:05,880
started to get to get in the mail all

1359
01:07:11,410 --> 01:07:08,280
these type type written letters

1360
01:07:13,670 --> 01:07:11,420
that were allegedly sent by

1361
01:07:15,470 --> 01:07:13,680
extraterrestrial visitors coming from

1362
01:07:18,410 --> 01:07:15,480
the planet UMO

1363
01:07:21,049 --> 01:07:18,420
and giving a lot of really detailed

1364
01:07:24,230 --> 01:07:21,059
scientifically sounding explanations

1365
01:07:27,170 --> 01:07:24,240
about their technology their Homeworld

1366
01:07:29,569 --> 01:07:27,180
their Customs whatever and a lot of

1367
01:07:33,230 --> 01:07:29,579
people believe that this was actual

1368
01:07:35,750 --> 01:07:33,240
contact you know with an alien presence

1369
01:07:38,770 --> 01:07:35,760
in our planet you know and and a lot of

1370
01:07:42,049 --> 01:07:38,780
people believe in in the UMO thing

1371
01:07:44,450 --> 01:07:42,059
eventually investigated even though he

1372
01:07:47,809 --> 01:07:44,460
never believed it he thought it was some

1373
01:07:52,250 --> 01:07:47,819
kind of like uh maybe counter spinach or

1374
01:07:55,069 --> 01:07:52,260
psyop experiment anyway in the 1990s uh

1375
01:07:58,730 --> 01:07:55,079
or early 2000s it was revealed but it

1376
01:08:02,750 --> 01:07:58,740
was you know that the letters were

1377
01:08:06,049 --> 01:08:02,760
written by by these uh Spanish guy whose

1378
01:08:09,589 --> 01:08:06,059
Name Escapes me right now but anyway the

1379
01:08:12,410 --> 01:08:09,599
letters were a whole but nevertheless uh

1380
01:08:14,450 --> 01:08:12,420
if you look into the history of of UFO

1381
01:08:18,050 --> 01:08:14,460
sightings there's been a lot of UFO

1382
01:08:20,570 --> 01:08:18,060
sightings with that same famous UMO

1383
01:08:24,950 --> 01:08:20,580
symbol that looks like two uh ellipses

1384
01:08:27,709 --> 01:08:24,960
or parentheses right like uh are in a

1385
01:08:31,249 --> 01:08:27,719
position and there's a line uh

1386
01:08:34,189 --> 01:08:31,259
traversing them even the famous vornish

1387
01:08:38,510 --> 01:08:34,199
case that happened in 1980 I want to say

1388
01:08:41,209 --> 01:08:38,520
1989 in in the Soviet Union before the

1389
01:08:43,970 --> 01:08:41,219
fall of the Berlin Wall

1390
01:08:46,789 --> 01:08:43,980
all these kids were were making drawings

1391
01:08:48,890 --> 01:08:46,799
and they were putting that UMO symbol

1392
01:08:50,209 --> 01:08:48,900
you know so what's going on there you

1393
01:08:53,450 --> 01:08:50,219
know are you saying that we're either

1394
01:08:56,269 --> 01:08:53,460
the KGB was behind the the

1395
01:08:58,849 --> 01:08:56,279
umu affair the Uma Hawks in in Spain and

1396
01:09:00,410 --> 01:08:58,859
they were also behind the these hoax in

1397
01:09:02,870 --> 01:09:00,420
in warrnamese

1398
01:09:04,610 --> 01:09:02,880
or there was some something going on you

1399
01:09:07,610 --> 01:09:04,620
know and and this is something that even

1400
01:09:10,430 --> 01:09:07,620
valet was wondering what's going on we

1401
01:09:13,070 --> 01:09:10,440
we know this is fake and yet we're still

1402
01:09:15,229 --> 01:09:13,080
seeing the same symbol in genuine cases

1403
01:09:17,630 --> 01:09:15,239
and

1404
01:09:19,309 --> 01:09:17,640
I even wonder you know will you be able

1405
01:09:22,010 --> 01:09:19,319
to if you put

1406
01:09:25,490 --> 01:09:22,020
some kind of like fake elements

1407
01:09:29,030 --> 01:09:25,500
in in a youthful story that is believed

1408
01:09:32,930 --> 01:09:29,040
Enough by sufficient people will you be

1409
01:09:36,110 --> 01:09:32,940
able to manifest Euro for activity using

1410
01:09:38,990 --> 01:09:36,120
those same symbols you know uh it's

1411
01:09:39,910 --> 01:09:39,000
something that that I that I think about

1412
01:09:42,410 --> 01:09:39,920
that

1413
01:09:45,590 --> 01:09:42,420
constantly and I don't know the answer

1414
01:09:48,410 --> 01:09:45,600
but I suspect that you know the answer

1415
01:09:51,229 --> 01:09:48,420
is yes that even if if it's not

1416
01:09:53,390 --> 01:09:51,239
something that that it is totally

1417
01:09:54,890 --> 01:09:53,400
manifested by the human mind it's like

1418
01:09:57,729 --> 01:09:54,900
some kind of like egg report or

1419
01:10:00,770 --> 01:09:57,739
something like a tulpa collective Tupa

1420
01:10:02,990 --> 01:10:00,780
maybe the UFO phenomenon will

1421
01:10:06,050 --> 01:10:03,000
is still use

1422
01:10:07,689 --> 01:10:06,060
that energy from our minds in order to

1423
01:10:10,550 --> 01:10:07,699
kind of like

1424
01:10:12,890 --> 01:10:10,560
disguises itself with it

1425
01:10:15,410 --> 01:10:12,900
in a way like well this is what you want

1426
01:10:19,070 --> 01:10:15,420
to see for some reason you know so let's

1427
01:10:21,169 --> 01:10:19,080
use this this these guys this this these

1428
01:10:24,110 --> 01:10:21,179
research this Avatar in order to

1429
01:10:26,450 --> 01:10:24,120
interact with you uh so you know you

1430
01:10:28,370 --> 01:10:26,460
don't uh you don't get uh too

1431
01:10:30,169 --> 01:10:28,380
overwhelmed by our presence you know

1432
01:10:33,169 --> 01:10:30,179
Turners McKenna

1433
01:10:36,110 --> 01:10:33,179
used to say a lot that that Europe over

1434
01:10:39,050 --> 01:10:36,120
nominal was nothing but uh the mushrooms

1435
01:10:41,410 --> 01:10:39,060
trying to contact us and the mushrooms

1436
01:10:44,390 --> 01:10:41,420
using the the the

1437
01:10:47,330 --> 01:10:44,400
disguise of an alien invasion

1438
01:10:49,310 --> 01:10:47,340
so as to not to alarm us too much you

1439
01:10:51,470 --> 01:10:49,320
know so

1440
01:10:54,050 --> 01:10:51,480
obviously all these things that we're

1441
01:10:56,330 --> 01:10:54,060
saying are contradictory you know but

1442
01:10:58,669 --> 01:10:56,340
they're just a speculation they're just

1443
01:11:01,510 --> 01:10:58,679
thought experiments but it's the kind of

1444
01:11:04,610 --> 01:11:01,520
stuff that I prefer to think about

1445
01:11:07,090 --> 01:11:04,620
rather than saying well you know UFOs

1446
01:11:09,430 --> 01:11:07,100
are either itchy craft

1447
01:11:12,530 --> 01:11:09,440
or military

1448
01:11:15,250 --> 01:11:12,540
Spivey planes or there are just you know

1449
01:11:18,229 --> 01:11:15,260
total hoaxes and our total you know

1450
01:11:19,910 --> 01:11:18,239
Fabrications and delusions that's to me

1451
01:11:23,390 --> 01:11:19,920
that's too binary

1452
01:11:24,250 --> 01:11:23,400
obviously you know no one denies that

1453
01:11:27,229 --> 01:11:24,260
the the

1454
01:11:29,990 --> 01:11:27,239
United States and other governments have

1455
01:11:34,070 --> 01:11:30,000
uh prototypes that they're not telling

1456
01:11:37,990 --> 01:11:34,080
us but I've always doubted that such

1457
01:11:41,930 --> 01:11:38,000
prototypes will be as as bad Advance

1458
01:11:44,649 --> 01:11:41,940
then that they would you know look

1459
01:11:48,530 --> 01:11:44,659
and and display the same capabilities

1460
01:11:53,510 --> 01:11:48,540
that are have been reported in UFO cases

1461
01:11:57,550 --> 01:11:53,520
since the 1940s since the 1950s or even

1462
01:12:01,910 --> 01:11:57,560
before the the beginning of the modern

1463
01:12:04,010 --> 01:12:01,920
UFO era you know if you if you take a

1464
01:12:07,490 --> 01:12:04,020
look at wonders in the sky written by

1465
01:12:09,649 --> 01:12:07,500
Chris holbeck and Andole you know all

1466
01:12:12,830 --> 01:12:09,659
these stories about you know the the

1467
01:12:16,250 --> 01:12:12,840
airship in the 1990s in the United

1468
01:12:18,649 --> 01:12:16,260
States or or you know the shields in the

1469
01:12:22,070 --> 01:12:18,659
sky that were seen by the raw mass or by

1470
01:12:23,990 --> 01:12:22,080
the Persians or glowing objects that

1471
01:12:27,410 --> 01:12:24,000
were you know coming out of the oceans

1472
01:12:30,470 --> 01:12:27,420
that were seen by by Merchant ships in

1473
01:12:32,209 --> 01:12:30,480
the 18th century you know obviously

1474
01:12:34,510 --> 01:12:32,219
that's that's not a that's not a U.S

1475
01:12:38,870 --> 01:12:34,520
prototype you know it's something else

1476
01:12:41,390 --> 01:12:38,880
yeah kind of the the absurdist nature or

1477
01:12:42,290 --> 01:12:41,400
the Ridiculousness I think of a lot of

1478
01:12:45,770 --> 01:12:42,300
these things

1479
01:12:50,570 --> 01:12:45,780
two really begs the question of um yeah

1480
01:12:56,810 --> 01:12:53,689
outside external thing or or is it all

1481
01:13:00,410 --> 01:12:56,820
being manifested through manipulation or

1482
01:13:02,450 --> 01:13:00,420
or deception you know um the more you're

1483
01:13:04,729 --> 01:13:02,460
you were talking about like the role of

1484
01:13:07,669 --> 01:13:04,739
a shaman the more I'm thinking like oh

1485
01:13:11,750 --> 01:13:07,679
my God is is Miguel saying that Stephen

1486
01:13:14,290 --> 01:13:11,760
Greer is a shaman this guy who you know

1487
01:13:19,130 --> 01:13:14,300
predicates his entire

1488
01:13:20,390 --> 01:13:19,140
career on ce5 and is it real or it or is

1489
01:13:29,169 --> 01:13:20,400
it

1490
01:13:35,630 --> 01:13:29,179
blowing my mind man this idea of like

1491
01:13:38,510 --> 01:13:35,640
yeah could could our our crew yeah

1492
01:13:40,550 --> 01:13:38,520
right and and getting back to your

1493
01:13:43,610 --> 01:13:40,560
career you know there are a lot of

1494
01:13:45,890 --> 01:13:43,620
shamans in the Amazon jungles who are

1495
01:13:48,350 --> 01:13:45,900
also [\h__\h] you know who are also

1496
01:13:50,390 --> 01:13:48,360
seeking to take advantage of you yeah

1497
01:13:53,510 --> 01:13:50,400
and and steal your money and maybe even

1498
01:13:55,669 --> 01:13:53,520
kill you if it suits their needs you

1499
01:13:57,709 --> 01:13:55,679
know they're there there are people who

1500
01:13:59,890 --> 01:13:57,719
use their powers for good and there are

1501
01:14:02,810 --> 01:13:59,900
people who use their powers for personal

1502
01:14:05,390 --> 01:14:02,820
personal gain and I'm not saying you

1503
01:14:09,530 --> 01:14:05,400
know Greer is doing that but uh I'll

1504
01:14:11,689 --> 01:14:09,540
I'll I'll leave that for everyone to to

1505
01:14:15,890 --> 01:14:11,699
to answer that

1506
01:14:19,189 --> 01:14:15,900
uh but obviously obviously uh

1507
01:14:24,189 --> 01:14:19,199
I've I've discussed this idea with

1508
01:14:26,750 --> 01:14:24,199
friends when we discussed uh C5 Type of

1509
01:14:29,390 --> 01:14:26,760
protocols and even people who can't

1510
01:14:32,209 --> 01:14:29,400
stand Stephen Greer they will go and

1511
01:14:32,990 --> 01:14:32,219
admit well yeah but the protocols do

1512
01:14:35,149 --> 01:14:33,000
work

1513
01:14:37,010 --> 01:14:35,159
you know and you do you use them

1514
01:14:38,810 --> 01:14:37,020
correctly and they use them on the right

1515
01:14:41,390 --> 01:14:38,820
set and setting

1516
01:14:44,750 --> 01:14:41,400
I've also you know written and

1517
01:14:47,450 --> 01:14:44,760
speculated about how how similar are the

1518
01:14:49,910 --> 01:14:47,460
UFO experience to psychedelic experience

1519
01:14:52,550 --> 01:14:49,920
you know it's a whole other kind of like

1520
01:14:55,790 --> 01:14:52,560
I I wonder should there be a proper set

1521
01:14:58,490 --> 01:14:55,800
and setting for UFO events so you you

1522
01:15:01,130 --> 01:14:58,500
are not you don't end up with a bad trip

1523
01:15:03,649 --> 01:15:01,140
like what happens in Skinwalker Ranch

1524
01:15:06,229 --> 01:15:03,659
you know maybe they they haven't figured

1525
01:15:09,229 --> 01:15:06,239
out the proper certain setting there but

1526
01:15:11,030 --> 01:15:09,239
yeah if you if you use these types of uh

1527
01:15:12,830 --> 01:15:11,040
protocols and they weren't invented by

1528
01:15:16,250 --> 01:15:12,840
Greer you know they would have been used

1529
01:15:21,010 --> 01:15:16,260
for hundreds of years by by magicians

1530
01:15:25,090 --> 01:15:21,020
and by mystery schools in order to

1531
01:15:27,950 --> 01:15:25,100
obtain these you know contact

1532
01:15:30,470 --> 01:15:27,960
with what is is the question is it

1533
01:15:33,470 --> 01:15:30,480
contract with contact with our higher

1534
01:15:35,169 --> 01:15:33,480
self with with an aspect of our soul or

1535
01:15:38,390 --> 01:15:35,179
is it contact with actual outside

1536
01:15:40,850 --> 01:15:38,400
intelligences you know that are using

1537
01:15:44,570 --> 01:15:40,860
our minds as some kind of like interface

1538
01:15:48,590 --> 01:15:44,580
nonetheless you know like uh some other

1539
01:15:50,350 --> 01:15:48,600
aspect of our imagination so now you

1540
01:15:52,630 --> 01:15:50,360
know we're talking about imaginal

1541
01:15:55,330 --> 01:15:52,640
experiences you know

1542
01:15:58,850 --> 01:15:55,340
experiences that are colored by our

1543
01:15:59,930 --> 01:15:58,860
expectations are colored by our cultural

1544
01:16:02,209 --> 01:15:59,940
baggage

1545
01:16:06,050 --> 01:16:02,219
by our

1546
01:16:09,229 --> 01:16:06,060
knowledge or power sci-fi lore

1547
01:16:11,570 --> 01:16:09,239
and it is somehow you know

1548
01:16:15,950 --> 01:16:11,580
covered in that patina

1549
01:16:18,890 --> 01:16:15,960
of you know mental imagery in order to

1550
01:16:21,729 --> 01:16:18,900
interact with us otherwise if if we

1551
01:16:24,770 --> 01:16:21,739
didn't have that it might be totally

1552
01:16:26,510 --> 01:16:24,780
incomprehensible you know right

1553
01:16:30,649 --> 01:16:26,520
could be the only way in which to

1554
01:16:32,870 --> 01:16:30,659
communicate as well yeah good good point

1555
01:16:33,890 --> 01:16:32,880
Um well hey man I kind of want to I want

1556
01:16:35,750 --> 01:16:33,900
to wrap up

1557
01:16:37,250 --> 01:16:35,760
um our section here on Anarchy in the

1558
01:16:40,430 --> 01:16:37,260
UFO because I've got some awesome

1559
01:16:43,669 --> 01:16:40,440
listener questions that came in for you

1560
01:16:47,330 --> 01:16:43,679
um and the the last one I want to kind

1561
01:16:50,390 --> 01:16:47,340
of cover for you personally uh here is

1562
01:16:52,910 --> 01:16:50,400
this quote from the essay the cliched

1563
01:16:55,370 --> 01:16:52,920
saucer on the White House lawn take me

1564
01:16:58,250 --> 01:16:55,380
to your leader scenario clearly holds no

1565
01:17:01,250 --> 01:16:58,260
appeal for the UFO intelligence instead

1566
01:17:03,250 --> 01:17:01,260
they give cardboard tasting pancakes to

1567
01:17:05,630 --> 01:17:03,260
a lonely chicken farmer in Wisconsin

1568
01:17:07,790 --> 01:17:05,640
instead of gathering genetic samples

1569
01:17:10,250 --> 01:17:07,800
from the most prominent members of our

1570
01:17:13,130 --> 01:17:10,260
species such as Albert Einstein or

1571
01:17:16,189 --> 01:17:13,140
Stephen Hawking the space vegetarians

1572
01:17:19,130 --> 01:17:16,199
rely on medieval methods to conduct

1573
01:17:21,169 --> 01:17:19,140
husbandry with Brazilian Farmers while

1574
01:17:23,750 --> 01:17:21,179
collecting sperm and OVA from post

1575
01:17:27,649 --> 01:17:23,760
office employees Christian Housewives

1576
01:17:29,930 --> 01:17:27,659
and Horn novelists that was probably my

1577
01:17:33,050 --> 01:17:29,940
favorite paragraph in the whole essay

1578
01:17:34,790 --> 01:17:33,060
because it speaks volumes of everyone

1579
01:17:38,149 --> 01:17:34,800
wants to know

1580
01:17:40,010 --> 01:17:38,159
why me you know I I speak to hundreds

1581
01:17:42,709 --> 01:17:40,020
and hundreds of experiencers and

1582
01:17:44,870 --> 01:17:42,719
Witnesses and that's their first

1583
01:17:47,570 --> 01:17:44,880
question like why why was I chosen like

1584
01:17:49,729 --> 01:17:47,580
I I don't believe in this stuff but it

1585
01:17:52,070 --> 01:17:49,739
just fell into my lap

1586
01:17:56,870 --> 01:17:52,080
um or you know why don't they go show

1587
01:17:58,910 --> 01:17:56,880
themselves to uh Avi Loeb or or or you

1588
01:18:01,729 --> 01:17:58,920
know all of these theoretical physicists

1589
01:18:04,130 --> 01:18:01,739
who push against the concept of this

1590
01:18:06,709 --> 01:18:04,140
stuff uh no they go to a lonely chicken

1591
01:18:09,110 --> 01:18:06,719
farmer and um give them some some

1592
01:18:11,510 --> 01:18:09,120
goddamn pancakes why do you think that

1593
01:18:14,090 --> 01:18:11,520
is why do you think uh the phenomena

1594
01:18:16,070 --> 01:18:14,100
chooses these individuals or do they

1595
01:18:18,770 --> 01:18:16,080
choose them you know going back to

1596
01:18:19,970 --> 01:18:18,780
Greg's whole co-creation hypothesis as

1597
01:18:26,570 --> 01:18:19,980
well

1598
01:18:29,330 --> 01:18:26,580
I wrote the essay I was very

1599
01:18:32,590 --> 01:18:29,340
very big on the idea that what was

1600
01:18:36,530 --> 01:18:32,600
happening here is some kind of uh

1601
01:18:39,709 --> 01:18:36,540
grassroot type of contact like

1602
01:18:43,850 --> 01:18:39,719
the best and most are most efficient way

1603
01:18:47,030 --> 01:18:43,860
to change a culture is not from the top

1604
01:18:49,430 --> 01:18:47,040
down you know like trickle down uh

1605
01:18:51,709 --> 01:18:49,440
trickle down doesn't work for anything

1606
01:18:54,110 --> 01:18:51,719
or even economics you know that's that's

1607
01:18:55,970 --> 01:18:54,120
why we're in the mess where he right now

1608
01:18:58,130 --> 01:18:55,980
in our world because of this believing

1609
01:19:01,550 --> 01:18:58,140
triple down economics no the real

1610
01:19:04,669 --> 01:19:01,560
changes that the last the the long

1611
01:19:08,110 --> 01:19:04,679
lasting changes happen from the bottom

1612
01:19:11,229 --> 01:19:08,120
up if it happened with Christianity

1613
01:19:15,169 --> 01:19:11,239
Christianity as soon as McKenna also

1614
01:19:17,930 --> 01:19:15,179
famously said in his lectures was a

1615
01:19:20,450 --> 01:19:17,940
religion that appended the the most

1616
01:19:23,750 --> 01:19:20,460
powerful Empire in the world the Roman

1617
01:19:24,910 --> 01:19:23,760
Empire because it captivated a stable

1618
01:19:29,530 --> 01:19:24,920
voice

1619
01:19:34,310 --> 01:19:29,540
and you know and and

1620
01:19:36,950 --> 01:19:34,320
and The Peasants and you know the the

1621
01:19:39,470 --> 01:19:36,960
workers you know the the people at the

1622
01:19:43,669 --> 01:19:39,480
at the bottom of the of the societal

1623
01:19:44,530 --> 01:19:43,679
status were the ones first captivated by

1624
01:19:48,350 --> 01:19:44,540
by

1625
01:19:50,930 --> 01:19:48,360
the appeal of Christianity and

1626
01:19:53,090 --> 01:19:50,940
uh it it took a while obviously it took

1627
01:19:55,010 --> 01:19:53,100
hundreds of years but at the end uh

1628
01:19:58,310 --> 01:19:55,020
Christianity became the official

1629
01:20:00,850 --> 01:19:58,320
religion of the Roman Empire and you can

1630
01:20:04,970 --> 01:20:00,860
see a parallel with with

1631
01:20:08,990 --> 01:20:04,980
UFOs and the contact movement in the

1632
01:20:13,490 --> 01:20:09,000
1950s you know like the contactees were

1633
01:20:15,410 --> 01:20:13,500
Housewives were uh people like George

1634
01:20:17,450 --> 01:20:15,420
adamski George adamski was flipping

1635
01:20:19,669 --> 01:20:17,460
burgers you know in some joint near

1636
01:20:22,130 --> 01:20:19,679
Palomar Observatory

1637
01:20:24,350 --> 01:20:22,140
and he called himself a professor in in

1638
01:20:27,110 --> 01:20:24,360
philosophy but that was just a made-up

1639
01:20:29,450 --> 01:20:27,120
title he made for himself in order to

1640
01:20:31,430 --> 01:20:29,460
sound more grandiloquent and to be taken

1641
01:20:34,370 --> 01:20:31,440
seriously but nevertheless you know I

1642
01:20:35,470 --> 01:20:34,380
mean what I love about the contact team

1643
01:20:38,330 --> 01:20:35,480
movement

1644
01:20:40,130 --> 01:20:38,340
which I see as a precursor to the New

1645
01:20:43,490 --> 01:20:40,140
Age movement that happened 20 years

1646
01:20:46,250 --> 01:20:43,500
later is that you it was like you know

1647
01:20:49,070 --> 01:20:46,260
all these common folk who claiming all

1648
01:20:51,709 --> 01:20:49,080
these experiences with the other and

1649
01:20:55,189 --> 01:20:51,719
they were trying to transform Society

1650
01:20:56,990 --> 01:20:55,199
you know from the from the bottom up

1651
01:20:59,990 --> 01:20:57,000
like saying yeah well we need to take

1652
01:21:02,810 --> 01:21:00,000
care of better care of our planet we

1653
01:21:05,750 --> 01:21:02,820
need to stop uh spending so much energy

1654
01:21:10,010 --> 01:21:05,760
in in war we need to stop you know

1655
01:21:12,890 --> 01:21:10,020
making nuclear weapons uh we need to

1656
01:21:14,450 --> 01:21:12,900
change our economic system you know back

1657
01:21:17,149 --> 01:21:14,460
in those days there were there were all

1658
01:21:20,209 --> 01:21:17,159
these economic ideas coming from people

1659
01:21:22,689 --> 01:21:20,219
like Gabriel green and all that trend to

1660
01:21:27,169 --> 01:21:22,699
come up with better solutions to economy

1661
01:21:29,570 --> 01:21:27,179
than capitalism or socialism uh

1662
01:21:33,410 --> 01:21:29,580
and that is and that is something that

1663
01:21:36,290 --> 01:21:33,420
that fascinated me how even though I no

1664
01:21:39,590 --> 01:21:36,300
longer believe that the UFO phenomenon

1665
01:21:42,050 --> 01:21:39,600
doesn't happen to also to people on the

1666
01:21:45,110 --> 01:21:42,060
top of the societal pyramid how could it

1667
01:21:47,330 --> 01:21:45,120
you know it's it's so egalitarian and

1668
01:21:49,430 --> 01:21:47,340
obviously if there are people in the

1669
01:21:51,530 --> 01:21:49,440
government that are interested in the

1670
01:21:54,890 --> 01:21:51,540
UFO phenomenon is because they have had

1671
01:21:57,110 --> 01:21:54,900
experiences of their own you know uh

1672
01:22:01,610 --> 01:21:57,120
that the thing is that they are better

1673
01:22:04,490 --> 01:22:01,620
at hiding them or not not being you know

1674
01:22:06,350 --> 01:22:04,500
open about them same way with uh you

1675
01:22:09,649 --> 01:22:06,360
know psychologic experiences you know

1676
01:22:12,110 --> 01:22:09,659
like you know only hippies uh are

1677
01:22:15,350 --> 01:22:12,120
comfortable talking about you know their

1678
01:22:17,870 --> 01:22:15,360
LSD trips instead of you know the the

1679
01:22:19,490 --> 01:22:17,880
high paying uh stock investor in Wall

1680
01:22:21,770 --> 01:22:19,500
Street you know because the stock

1681
01:22:23,770 --> 01:22:21,780
investor says that it knows that if he

1682
01:22:26,510 --> 01:22:23,780
talks about that he'll be out of his job

1683
01:22:28,490 --> 01:22:26,520
but nevertheless you know the people who

1684
01:22:31,729 --> 01:22:28,500
talked about it this and the people who

1685
01:22:34,430 --> 01:22:31,739
who create an interest are the ones that

1686
01:22:35,990 --> 01:22:34,440
are that are changing the culture and

1687
01:22:38,750 --> 01:22:36,000
our culture

1688
01:22:41,330 --> 01:22:38,760
if if we analyze it has changed

1689
01:22:43,910 --> 01:22:41,340
dramatically in the last you know 50

1690
01:22:46,130 --> 01:22:43,920
years it looks like a long time to us

1691
01:22:48,770 --> 01:22:46,140
obviously especially to people who are

1692
01:22:50,810 --> 01:22:48,780
waiting for disclosure to happen like

1693
01:22:54,169 --> 01:22:50,820
next month you know they've been waiting

1694
01:22:58,570 --> 01:22:54,179
for disclosure since 2017. you know and

1695
01:23:02,510 --> 01:22:58,580
they all grow the gray beers like ours

1696
01:23:04,669 --> 01:23:02,520
is nothing it does happen it's going

1697
01:23:07,850 --> 01:23:04,679
it's it's this is a marathon you know

1698
01:23:10,910 --> 01:23:07,860
this is not a 100 meter race you know

1699
01:23:15,410 --> 01:23:10,920
take a breather you know keep your pace

1700
01:23:19,810 --> 01:23:15,420
uh but it is slowly changing you know I

1701
01:23:22,610 --> 01:23:19,820
I think it's undeniable you know like uh

1702
01:23:25,850 --> 01:23:22,620
nowadays everybody knows what a UFO is

1703
01:23:28,550 --> 01:23:25,860
you know understand the acronym there's

1704
01:23:31,729 --> 01:23:28,560
not a country in the world that doesn't

1705
01:23:34,729 --> 01:23:31,739
understand the the that those you three

1706
01:23:38,750 --> 01:23:34,739
letters you know signify some kind of

1707
01:23:43,610 --> 01:23:38,760
like alien presence and and everybody

1708
01:23:47,450 --> 01:23:43,620
now is open to the idea of of Be Be Live

1709
01:23:51,590 --> 01:23:47,460
being outside you know the planet

1710
01:23:54,410 --> 01:23:51,600
and nowadays we are seeing in our

1711
01:23:58,189 --> 01:23:54,420
culture in our science fiction we are

1712
01:24:01,130 --> 01:23:58,199
seeing uh the eruption of these other

1713
01:24:03,890 --> 01:24:01,140
Noble ideas the idea of the Multiverse

1714
01:24:06,470 --> 01:24:03,900
the Multiverse is getting more and more

1715
01:24:08,810 --> 01:24:06,480
predominant in sci-fi culture you know

1716
01:24:11,689 --> 01:24:08,820
the spider verse

1717
01:24:14,229 --> 01:24:11,699
everything anywhere all at once

1718
01:24:18,110 --> 01:24:14,239
so many other movies in

1719
01:24:20,209 --> 01:24:18,120
the quantumania in like in like the idea

1720
01:24:22,250 --> 01:24:20,219
that oh yeah there's all these other

1721
01:24:23,750 --> 01:24:22,260
worlds and they're all an infinite

1722
01:24:25,189 --> 01:24:23,760
versions of you

1723
01:24:26,870 --> 01:24:25,199
out there

1724
01:24:29,030 --> 01:24:26,880
uh

1725
01:24:32,030 --> 01:24:29,040
so these things

1726
01:24:34,430 --> 01:24:32,040
slowly but surely change the culture you

1727
01:24:35,990 --> 01:24:34,440
know even even if you don't and this is

1728
01:24:38,570 --> 01:24:36,000
something that I think I even wrote in

1729
01:24:41,810 --> 01:24:38,580
the in the essay even if you think that

1730
01:24:44,450 --> 01:24:41,820
UFOs are total baloney that are totally

1731
01:24:46,850 --> 01:24:44,460
fictitious there's no denying that UFOs

1732
01:24:50,750 --> 01:24:46,860
have a huge influence

1733
01:24:55,910 --> 01:24:50,760
on on our culture from the point of view

1734
01:24:58,970 --> 01:24:55,920
of of only from a meme standpoint you

1735
01:25:02,810 --> 01:24:58,980
know the idea of the little flying

1736
01:25:04,490 --> 01:25:02,820
saucer like uh sucking the cow with a

1737
01:25:06,649 --> 01:25:04,500
tractor vein you know it's something

1738
01:25:10,250 --> 01:25:06,659
that people you don't need to explain

1739
01:25:13,669 --> 01:25:10,260
that that drawing to to someone

1740
01:25:16,070 --> 01:25:13,679
in in in in passing on the street maybe

1741
01:25:20,330 --> 01:25:16,080
500 years from now it will be that's

1742
01:25:23,209 --> 01:25:20,340
inscrutable as a as a as a painting in

1743
01:25:26,689 --> 01:25:23,219
in a medieval in a medieval painting or

1744
01:25:28,250 --> 01:25:26,699
maybe you know 15 000 years from now you

1745
01:25:30,590 --> 01:25:28,260
will see that and it will be as

1746
01:25:33,830 --> 01:25:30,600
difficult to understand as a cave

1747
01:25:37,310 --> 01:25:33,840
painting you know but this is in in our

1748
01:25:39,950 --> 01:25:37,320
culture right now UFOs are taking more

1749
01:25:42,709 --> 01:25:39,960
and more a predominant uh a very center

1750
01:25:45,470 --> 01:25:42,719
role and it's fascinating you know to

1751
01:25:47,390 --> 01:25:45,480
see where will that lead us maybe we'll

1752
01:25:50,709 --> 01:25:47,400
fizzle out you know maybe with the

1753
01:25:53,750 --> 01:25:50,719
interest we will start to wane or maybe

1754
01:25:56,410 --> 01:25:53,760
things will start to ramp up and I'm I'm

1755
01:25:59,930 --> 01:25:56,420
waiting to see you know when the next

1756
01:26:02,709 --> 01:25:59,940
wave of view of activity will start that

1757
01:26:06,070 --> 01:26:02,719
that's something that that is

1758
01:26:09,790 --> 01:26:06,080
strangely lacking nowadays I was

1759
01:26:15,830 --> 01:26:13,790
uh New York New York article broke I was

1760
01:26:19,310 --> 01:26:15,840
thinking well we will that happen will

1761
01:26:21,850 --> 01:26:19,320
this have an effect on on UFO reports I

1762
01:26:24,890 --> 01:26:21,860
guess it did in in among the military

1763
01:26:28,070 --> 01:26:24,900
right and among civilian Pilots

1764
01:26:30,590 --> 01:26:28,080
definitely they are they having uh are

1765
01:26:33,050 --> 01:26:30,600
they are less afraid to report that they

1766
01:26:34,729 --> 01:26:33,060
saw something weird in the sky that may

1767
01:26:36,890 --> 01:26:34,739
or may not be truly anomalous some

1768
01:26:39,950 --> 01:26:36,900
people say Well they're just say seeing

1769
01:26:42,410 --> 01:26:39,960
the startling satellites up there Beyond

1770
01:26:44,570 --> 01:26:42,420
above their or their planes or maybe

1771
01:26:46,270 --> 01:26:44,580
this is something truly anomalous we

1772
01:26:49,669 --> 01:26:46,280
don't know but it's a good thing that

1773
01:26:52,010 --> 01:26:49,679
the the stigma in those regards is

1774
01:26:55,129 --> 01:26:52,020
starting to lift but at the same time I

1775
01:26:59,209 --> 01:26:55,139
want to see like everyday people also

1776
01:27:00,229 --> 01:26:59,219
reporting uh more UFO sightings problem

1777
01:27:02,689 --> 01:27:00,239
is

1778
01:27:04,850 --> 01:27:02,699
who are they going to report it to are

1779
01:27:07,070 --> 01:27:04,860
they going to report it to to the Stars

1780
01:27:09,590 --> 01:27:07,080
stormed alone wanted you know he wanted

1781
01:27:13,070 --> 01:27:09,600
to create this app that will be like the

1782
01:27:16,610 --> 01:27:13,080
the go-to uh thing to report your

1783
01:27:18,290 --> 01:27:16,620
sighting and to tell them data mind all

1784
01:27:20,330 --> 01:27:18,300
that information you know obviously for

1785
01:27:22,910 --> 01:27:20,340
their benefit you know maybe they wanted

1786
01:27:25,430 --> 01:27:22,920
to create some kind of like uh UFO

1787
01:27:28,370 --> 01:27:25,440
version of chat GPT you know chap GPT

1788
01:27:31,850 --> 01:27:28,380
and all this AI systems that are you

1789
01:27:34,729 --> 01:27:31,860
know funneling all these online

1790
01:27:36,890 --> 01:27:34,739
information you know to train the

1791
01:27:38,990 --> 01:27:36,900
algorithm and and to make it smarter and

1792
01:27:40,850 --> 01:27:39,000
smarter maybe maybe some of the one

1793
01:27:43,129 --> 01:27:40,860
wanted to make the same thing and

1794
01:27:45,050 --> 01:27:43,139
predict like the next year of a wave

1795
01:27:48,590 --> 01:27:45,060
using that I don't know I'm speculating

1796
01:27:50,390 --> 01:27:48,600
here but yeah nevertheless getting back

1797
01:27:53,870 --> 01:27:50,400
to my idea

1798
01:27:56,890 --> 01:27:53,880
I don't see I don't see a flurry of UFO

1799
01:28:00,169 --> 01:27:56,900
activity reported by everyday people

1800
01:28:01,970 --> 01:28:00,179
nowadays and that is that is interesting

1801
01:28:04,370 --> 01:28:01,980
it's intriguing to me I don't know why

1802
01:28:06,830 --> 01:28:04,380
why maybe people are too preoccupied

1803
01:28:09,290 --> 01:28:06,840
with other stuff we had the pandemic and

1804
01:28:12,530 --> 01:28:09,300
people were inside their homes you know

1805
01:28:17,570 --> 01:28:12,540
most of the time uh and people now are

1806
01:28:20,209 --> 01:28:17,580
are uh doing other stuff but I want to

1807
01:28:21,830 --> 01:28:20,219
see when the next UFO way will happen

1808
01:28:25,790 --> 01:28:21,840
where

1809
01:28:30,050 --> 01:28:25,800
and and how will that you know

1810
01:28:32,810 --> 01:28:30,060
affect the the the current momentum that

1811
01:28:36,770 --> 01:28:32,820
we're having uh culturally

1812
01:28:39,410 --> 01:28:36,780
yeah absolutely man well it's happening

1813
01:28:42,590 --> 01:28:39,420
right now come on Miguel in the United

1814
01:28:45,550 --> 01:28:42,600
States in Canada it's happening the

1815
01:28:50,090 --> 01:28:45,560
balloons they're invading

1816
01:28:51,950 --> 01:28:50,100
no I I'm with you man I I I and that was

1817
01:28:53,629 --> 01:28:51,960
actually one of my questions for that's

1818
01:28:58,310 --> 01:28:53,639
one of our listener questions actually

1819
01:29:00,470 --> 01:28:58,320
for you is um Monica on patreon asks so

1820
01:29:02,390 --> 01:29:00,480
I'll move over to these actually

1821
01:29:05,390 --> 01:29:02,400
um our patrons get priority to ask our

1822
01:29:06,410 --> 01:29:05,400
guests questions first she wants to know

1823
01:29:09,290 --> 01:29:06,420
um

1824
01:29:10,610 --> 01:29:09,300
why do you think it is uh this plays

1825
01:29:12,770 --> 01:29:10,620
right into this why do you think it is

1826
01:29:15,890 --> 01:29:12,780
we don't hear so much uh primarily about

1827
01:29:18,530 --> 01:29:15,900
alien abductions any longer you like

1828
01:29:20,030 --> 01:29:18,540
never hear about reports of these things

1829
01:29:21,290 --> 01:29:20,040
um and that also plays into what you

1830
01:29:24,770 --> 01:29:21,300
just said we don't hear a lot of

1831
01:29:26,510 --> 01:29:24,780
Civilian uh witness testimony anymore

1832
01:29:29,030 --> 01:29:26,520
um you know that's that's my big thing

1833
01:29:31,550 --> 01:29:29,040
here is getting people to tell their

1834
01:29:33,890 --> 01:29:31,560
stories and I will say it becomes harder

1835
01:29:35,870 --> 01:29:33,900
and harder when you would think that it

1836
01:29:37,850 --> 01:29:35,880
would become easier and easier nowadays

1837
01:29:40,550 --> 01:29:37,860
so um yeah

1838
01:29:41,689 --> 01:29:40,560
um to to kind of piggyback off of Monica

1839
01:29:43,850 --> 01:29:41,699
there why do you think it is we don't

1840
01:29:47,990 --> 01:29:43,860
hear so much about abductions anymore or

1841
01:29:53,870 --> 01:29:52,550
right uh with abductions it's a it's an

1842
01:29:55,910 --> 01:29:53,880
interesting question and this is

1843
01:29:57,709 --> 01:29:55,920
something that even I even

1844
01:30:01,610 --> 01:29:57,719
wrote

1845
01:30:05,090 --> 01:30:01,620
in an introduction for Mike Leland's uh

1846
01:30:08,209 --> 01:30:05,100
book he released uh a book to Mark the

1847
01:30:09,530 --> 01:30:08,219
10th anniversary of his blog hidden

1848
01:30:11,930 --> 01:30:09,540
experience

1849
01:30:17,990 --> 01:30:11,940
and

1850
01:30:20,510 --> 01:30:18,000
worst uh skeptic you know he's been

1851
01:30:25,750 --> 01:30:20,520
going back and forth whether the trying

1852
01:30:27,770 --> 01:30:25,760
to ascertain whether he has had true UFO

1853
01:30:29,110 --> 01:30:27,780
experiences or even abduction

1854
01:30:32,990 --> 01:30:29,120
experiences

1855
01:30:35,030 --> 01:30:33,000
uh but she's been very reticent to you

1856
01:30:38,390 --> 01:30:35,040
know even believe in his in his own

1857
01:30:40,610 --> 01:30:38,400
memories you know and and but one thing

1858
01:30:43,010 --> 01:30:40,620
that that was clear to me when I was

1859
01:30:45,050 --> 01:30:43,020
following his blog and I was seeing the

1860
01:30:48,950 --> 01:30:45,060
responses he got

1861
01:30:52,910 --> 01:30:48,960
from his postings and also how he got in

1862
01:30:56,169 --> 01:30:52,920
contact with other people who were also

1863
01:31:00,970 --> 01:30:56,179
sharing their own personal experiences

1864
01:31:06,649 --> 01:31:00,980
uh on the Internet is that

1865
01:31:09,729 --> 01:31:06,659
these people no longer need a the

1866
01:31:13,189 --> 01:31:09,739
middleman as it were in order to share

1867
01:31:15,410 --> 01:31:13,199
their stories to the World by middleman

1868
01:31:18,410 --> 01:31:15,420
I'm referring to people like Bob Hopkins

1869
01:31:21,770 --> 01:31:18,420
or David Jacobs you know like the the

1870
01:31:25,129 --> 01:31:21,780
the UFO investigator who will contact

1871
01:31:27,350 --> 01:31:25,139
the experiencer of the abductee maybe

1872
01:31:30,530 --> 01:31:27,360
they have some kind of like counseling

1873
01:31:33,350 --> 01:31:30,540
circle like both did and that's how he

1874
01:31:34,490 --> 01:31:33,360
managed to gather these stories collect

1875
01:31:40,729 --> 01:31:34,500
them

1876
01:31:43,010 --> 01:31:40,739
their own opinions of what the

1877
01:31:45,649 --> 01:31:43,020
phenomenon should and shouldn't do

1878
01:31:49,189 --> 01:31:45,659
and put them in a book like Intruders

1879
01:31:53,890 --> 01:31:49,199
missing time silent Invasion whatever

1880
01:31:56,570 --> 01:31:53,900
so maybe the reason why we are no longer

1881
01:31:58,250 --> 01:31:56,580
seeing those kind of boots in the market

1882
01:32:00,169 --> 01:31:58,260
is because

1883
01:32:02,330 --> 01:32:00,179
the experiencers

1884
01:32:04,970 --> 01:32:02,340
they're no longer reaching to people

1885
01:32:07,610 --> 01:32:04,980
like both Hopkins or David Jacobs or

1886
01:32:10,010 --> 01:32:07,620
their successors they are just

1887
01:32:12,530 --> 01:32:10,020
sharing their stories online with

1888
01:32:15,350 --> 01:32:12,540
like-minded people through their blogs

1889
01:32:17,689 --> 01:32:15,360
or through their tick tocks or through

1890
01:32:20,870 --> 01:32:17,699
their podcast whatever

1891
01:32:25,550 --> 01:32:20,880
uh and and

1892
01:32:28,070 --> 01:32:25,560
they have that uh outlet they that

1893
01:32:30,790 --> 01:32:28,080
creative outlet that they needed in

1894
01:32:33,649 --> 01:32:30,800
order to not keep that experience

1895
01:32:36,110 --> 01:32:33,659
bottled inside of them and festering

1896
01:32:39,470 --> 01:32:36,120
inside of them so maybe that's one of

1897
01:32:43,010 --> 01:32:39,480
the reasons why we we don't hear so much

1898
01:32:45,709 --> 01:32:43,020
about abductions because you know we

1899
01:32:48,550 --> 01:32:45,719
have we had these major cultural shift

1900
01:32:51,410 --> 01:32:48,560
through the arrival of the internet

1901
01:32:54,890 --> 01:32:51,420
through the arrival of personal blogging

1902
01:32:56,510 --> 01:32:54,900
through the arrival of podcasting so if

1903
01:32:58,310 --> 01:32:56,520
you want if you want to learn about

1904
01:33:01,550 --> 01:32:58,320
those stories

1905
01:33:05,209 --> 01:33:01,560
you don't go to the your local Barnes

1906
01:33:07,209 --> 01:33:05,219
and Nobles you subscribe to to you know

1907
01:33:16,370 --> 01:33:07,219
a

1908
01:33:19,790 --> 01:33:16,380
someone's blog I guess one I guess blogs

1909
01:33:23,450 --> 01:33:19,800
are no longer that uh popular now in the

1910
01:33:25,669 --> 01:33:23,460
days of social media and Twitter uh but

1911
01:33:28,490 --> 01:33:25,679
maybe that's one of the reasons it's a

1912
01:33:31,129 --> 01:33:28,500
it's a social technological explanation

1913
01:33:34,490 --> 01:33:31,139
rather of oh well you know the aliens

1914
01:33:37,129 --> 01:33:34,500
are no longer are no longer taking so

1915
01:33:39,290 --> 01:33:37,139
many people and abducting them which I I

1916
01:33:42,290 --> 01:33:39,300
cannot say that's not the case you know

1917
01:33:44,450 --> 01:33:42,300
I I've heard some people within those

1918
01:33:48,890 --> 01:33:44,460
circles you know people who talk to to

1919
01:33:52,189 --> 01:33:48,900
Guys Like Mike Mike Cleland that the

1920
01:33:54,890 --> 01:33:52,199
mission or the the project like changed

1921
01:33:57,590 --> 01:33:54,900
years and they are no longer in the

1922
01:34:00,530 --> 01:33:57,600
taking people and and making the

1923
01:34:03,950 --> 01:34:00,540
experiment phase there are they are now

1924
01:34:06,890 --> 01:34:03,960
in the standby phase you know my standby

1925
01:34:10,070 --> 01:34:06,900
is that uh they're waiting for something

1926
01:34:13,310 --> 01:34:10,080
to cast happen maybe some catastrophe or

1927
01:34:15,410 --> 01:34:13,320
maybe something that will trigger the

1928
01:34:17,870 --> 01:34:15,420
second phase of the the their their

1929
01:34:21,470 --> 01:34:17,880
grand project which is

1930
01:34:23,510 --> 01:34:21,480
I don't know what you know

1931
01:34:25,850 --> 01:34:23,520
you guess it's as good as mine but

1932
01:34:28,250 --> 01:34:25,860
that's what some of those people believe

1933
01:34:31,370 --> 01:34:28,260
that maybe you know the aliens are now

1934
01:34:33,050 --> 01:34:31,380
in another phase of their project and

1935
01:34:35,390 --> 01:34:33,060
they are no longer interested you know

1936
01:34:37,850 --> 01:34:35,400
they they have all the they have all the

1937
01:34:39,649 --> 01:34:37,860
hybrid babies they can you know they can

1938
01:34:42,110 --> 01:34:39,659
get or they can keep on their

1939
01:34:43,970 --> 01:34:42,120
motherships and now they're you know I

1940
01:34:46,250 --> 01:34:43,980
don't know you know maybe maybe the

1941
01:34:48,169 --> 01:34:46,260
hybrids are now learning how to control

1942
01:34:52,129 --> 01:34:48,179
all the teenage children who are having

1943
01:34:54,830 --> 01:34:52,139
all these space rapes within the within

1944
01:34:57,890 --> 01:34:54,840
the motherships and trying to keep them

1945
01:34:59,930 --> 01:34:57,900
from not you know crashing them on on a

1946
01:35:02,149 --> 01:34:59,940
master or something I don't know I don't

1947
01:35:03,890 --> 01:35:02,159
know that they're you know they're

1948
01:35:06,890 --> 01:35:03,900
watching Tick Tock Miguel and they're

1949
01:35:09,229 --> 01:35:06,900
wondering what did we do wrong what did

1950
01:35:11,050 --> 01:35:09,239
we do wrong I think that's what it is

1951
01:35:13,430 --> 01:35:11,060
yeah yeah

1952
01:35:17,870 --> 01:35:13,440
they're watching our YouTube channels

1953
01:35:20,510 --> 01:35:17,880
and being like ah God no okay yeah phase

1954
01:35:24,830 --> 01:35:20,520
four we're terminating that phase four

1955
01:35:26,930 --> 01:35:24,840
is done The Avengers are over

1956
01:35:29,209 --> 01:35:26,940
awesome exactly

1957
01:35:31,790 --> 01:35:29,219
well I like that thank you for that um

1958
01:35:34,790 --> 01:35:31,800
here's another good one Jake on patreon

1959
01:35:36,890 --> 01:35:34,800
asks as an artist Miguel who are some of

1960
01:35:40,010 --> 01:35:36,900
your favorite artists or ones that you

1961
01:35:45,370 --> 01:35:40,020
draw inspiration from

1962
01:35:51,890 --> 01:35:48,530
and I well I keep saying this

1963
01:35:56,030 --> 01:35:51,900
um I I I said this before but my clan is

1964
01:35:59,229 --> 01:35:56,040
a huge inspiration uh for me uh

1965
01:36:02,990 --> 01:35:59,239
because Mike is a wonderful

1966
01:36:04,430 --> 01:36:03,000
cartoonist an illustrator aside from his

1967
01:36:09,770 --> 01:36:04,440
uh

1968
01:36:10,729 --> 01:36:09,780
separate blog he called little boing

1969
01:36:14,990 --> 01:36:10,739
marks

1970
01:36:16,010 --> 01:36:15,000
good solution to the the little like

1971
01:36:18,950 --> 01:36:16,020
curves

1972
01:36:20,870 --> 01:36:18,960
lines that sometimes you draw in order

1973
01:36:22,370 --> 01:36:20,880
to depict the movement you know what I'm

1974
01:36:24,890 --> 01:36:22,380
talking about if you've seen you know

1975
01:36:26,930 --> 01:36:24,900
any kind of comic strip so that's cool

1976
01:36:27,850 --> 01:36:26,940
those are those are called the boy marks

1977
01:36:31,250 --> 01:36:27,860
and and

1978
01:36:33,050 --> 01:36:31,260
my shirt his art there among the Arts he

1979
01:36:35,770 --> 01:36:33,060
shared there were the wonderful

1980
01:36:38,209 --> 01:36:35,780
illustrations he created for

1981
01:36:41,030 --> 01:36:38,219
macdonuses posthumous book The Crystal

1982
01:36:43,610 --> 01:36:41,040
the crypto terrestrials

1983
01:36:47,510 --> 01:36:43,620
and the last illustration in that book

1984
01:36:51,050 --> 01:36:47,520
is uh Mac opening the doorway of his

1985
01:36:54,189 --> 01:36:51,060
apartment uh to meet the other you know

1986
01:36:57,229 --> 01:36:54,199
and it is a really powerful powerful

1987
01:36:59,649 --> 01:36:57,239
illustration you know he even put his

1988
01:37:02,810 --> 01:36:59,659
little cats there you know

1989
01:37:06,590 --> 01:37:02,820
and that is the thing that inspired me

1990
01:37:10,310 --> 01:37:06,600
when the time came to say yes to Greg

1991
01:37:13,669 --> 01:37:10,320
Bishops uh requests to illustrate his

1992
01:37:17,209 --> 01:37:13,679
book he devised language so we that we

1993
01:37:21,410 --> 01:37:17,219
could that we did I I want to say 2015

1994
01:37:24,470 --> 01:37:21,420
or 2016. some some in some vicinity and

1995
01:37:28,310 --> 01:37:24,480
that's the first book cover that I

1996
01:37:30,830 --> 01:37:28,320
created so you know this whole careers

1997
01:37:32,030 --> 01:37:30,840
and illustrators as an illustrator which

1998
01:37:35,930 --> 01:37:32,040
I didn't have

1999
01:37:38,450 --> 01:37:35,940
prior to to to it defies language prior

2000
01:37:40,970 --> 01:37:38,460
to all that it happened because of of my

2001
01:37:43,850 --> 01:37:40,980
cleanup before that I was doing other

2002
01:37:45,890 --> 01:37:43,860
stuff I was an interior designer working

2003
01:37:49,129 --> 01:37:45,900
for Architects you know designing

2004
01:37:52,729 --> 01:37:49,139
staircase designing cabinets designing

2005
01:37:54,950 --> 01:37:52,739
bars designing bathrooms kitchens all

2006
01:37:57,350 --> 01:37:54,960
that stuff it was it was an interesting

2007
01:38:01,189 --> 01:37:57,360
job it was horribly in the sense of

2008
01:38:03,830 --> 01:38:01,199
stressful enough is is you have to

2009
01:38:06,590 --> 01:38:03,840
juggle a lot of things and you have a

2010
01:38:09,590 --> 01:38:06,600
you know very tight schedules timetables

2011
01:38:11,510 --> 01:38:09,600
uh budgets whatever but that was what

2012
01:38:14,930 --> 01:38:11,520
that that is what I was doing for a

2013
01:38:18,290 --> 01:38:14,940
living for you know 20 years and but

2014
01:38:19,669 --> 01:38:18,300
also before that uh when I was a kid I

2015
01:38:22,729 --> 01:38:19,679
wasn't into

2016
01:38:27,229 --> 01:38:22,739
you know comic books like Superman or

2017
01:38:31,390 --> 01:38:27,239
Batman much the thing that my mother uh

2018
01:38:35,870 --> 01:38:31,400
got for me when I was like little was

2019
01:38:38,050 --> 01:38:35,880
these illustrating editions of uh

2020
01:38:41,629 --> 01:38:38,060
literature classics

2021
01:38:44,930 --> 01:38:41,639
that were published in the 1970s you

2022
01:38:46,550 --> 01:38:44,940
know like uh a comic book Renditions of

2023
01:38:50,290 --> 01:38:46,560
Dracula

2024
01:38:52,629 --> 01:38:50,300
Tom Sawyer The Hunchback of Notre Dame

2025
01:38:58,250 --> 01:38:52,639
Crime and Punishment things like that

2026
01:39:02,510 --> 01:38:58,260
and these were actually done by about a

2027
01:39:05,090 --> 01:39:02,520
group of obscure Philippine artists that

2028
01:39:09,590 --> 01:39:05,100
no one knew about obviously I guess

2029
01:39:12,590 --> 01:39:09,600
because uh they were cheaper labor than

2030
01:39:16,129 --> 01:39:12,600
if you commission this work you know for

2031
01:39:18,649 --> 01:39:16,139
regular artists in the US or the UK and

2032
01:39:22,070 --> 01:39:18,659
one of those artists was a guy by the

2033
01:39:25,629 --> 01:39:22,080
name of Nestor Redondo you can look him

2034
01:39:28,430 --> 01:39:25,639
up on Google he was a Philippine artist

2035
01:39:31,610 --> 01:39:28,440
who before that he was an architect and

2036
01:39:36,530 --> 01:39:31,620
I guess he had to switch careers you

2037
01:39:39,709 --> 01:39:36,540
know as we'd survived but his artwork is

2038
01:39:42,950 --> 01:39:39,719
fantastic I've always loved it the way

2039
01:39:46,430 --> 01:39:42,960
that he he created his lines with I

2040
01:39:48,950 --> 01:39:46,440
guess with with with brushes and and the

2041
01:39:52,669 --> 01:39:48,960
texture that he he created with that it

2042
01:39:54,410 --> 01:39:52,679
is it is it is truly marvelous you know

2043
01:39:55,610 --> 01:39:54,420
it's something that I've tried to

2044
01:39:58,729 --> 01:39:55,620
emulate

2045
01:40:01,850 --> 01:39:58,739
in in some in some capacity with their

2046
01:40:03,830 --> 01:40:01,860
own style that I created for the for the

2047
01:40:06,229 --> 01:40:03,840
UFO tarot project you know I wanted to

2048
01:40:09,850 --> 01:40:06,239
create something that looked a mixture

2049
01:40:17,410 --> 01:40:13,729
old wood cutting illustrations you know

2050
01:40:21,470 --> 01:40:17,420
like in the day they did in the you know

2051
01:40:25,310 --> 01:40:21,480
1600s or something and the modern you

2052
01:40:28,010 --> 01:40:25,320
know pop culture pop pop art of uh the

2053
01:40:31,310 --> 01:40:28,020
comic era you know with the thought but

2054
01:40:34,189 --> 01:40:31,320
the half toned patterns and and and

2055
01:40:35,870 --> 01:40:34,199
different uh almost like mangas you know

2056
01:40:37,970 --> 01:40:35,880
the manga animation the manga

2057
01:40:40,790 --> 01:40:37,980
illustrations that I like I wanted to

2058
01:40:44,510 --> 01:40:40,800
kind of like merge those those

2059
01:40:46,250 --> 01:40:44,520
a traditions and create something that

2060
01:40:51,890 --> 01:40:46,260
it looks kind of old but also kind of

2061
01:40:57,770 --> 01:40:51,900
new uh and also using a lot of uh

2062
01:41:00,950 --> 01:40:57,780
the very very uh defined uh black uh

2063
01:41:03,950 --> 01:41:00,960
line art that trying to copy you know

2064
01:41:05,629 --> 01:41:03,960
the way that Nestor Redondo did his

2065
01:41:07,850 --> 01:41:05,639
illustrations which is you know fast

2066
01:41:11,750 --> 01:41:07,860
fantastic you know the way they this guy

2067
01:41:15,050 --> 01:41:11,760
was a master of of of the of the pen and

2068
01:41:17,590 --> 01:41:15,060
of the ink and he was a master of the

2069
01:41:20,689 --> 01:41:17,600
way that he shaded his figures and using

2070
01:41:24,169 --> 01:41:20,699
light and Shadow in order to create an

2071
01:41:26,450 --> 01:41:24,179
atmosphere and and and yeah definitely a

2072
01:41:30,169 --> 01:41:26,460
big influence for me

2073
01:41:31,970 --> 01:41:30,179
awesome well that bleeds into kind of my

2074
01:41:35,870 --> 01:41:31,980
last thing I wanted to cover with you

2075
01:41:38,390 --> 01:41:35,880
Miguel is the ufology tarot

2076
01:41:40,609 --> 01:41:38,400
um what is this project you know I I was

2077
01:41:43,790 --> 01:41:40,619
I had the honor of seeing a few of the

2078
01:41:45,590 --> 01:41:43,800
um the very early samples along with a

2079
01:41:47,149 --> 01:41:45,600
lot of your Kickstarter supporters over

2080
01:41:49,729 --> 01:41:47,159
there as well

2081
01:41:52,129 --> 01:41:49,739
um of the ufology tarot and I was blown

2082
01:41:53,990 --> 01:41:52,139
away man so um yeah can you tell us a

2083
01:41:56,990 --> 01:41:54,000
little bit more about this project how

2084
01:42:02,810 --> 01:41:57,000
it came to be and uh yeah kind of what

2085
01:42:10,510 --> 01:42:07,510
thank you well uh the project came about

2086
01:42:14,689 --> 01:42:10,520
when a group of friends

2087
01:42:19,430 --> 01:42:14,699
uh got together we organized these

2088
01:42:22,490 --> 01:42:19,440
weekly salons on Skype in order to you

2089
01:42:26,649 --> 01:42:22,500
know salons us you know you you fool

2090
01:42:31,490 --> 01:42:26,659
around you chat you share uh you know

2091
01:42:34,070 --> 01:42:31,500
the latest gossip or scoop in anthology

2092
01:42:35,330 --> 01:42:34,080
and also you know your your personal

2093
01:42:38,209 --> 01:42:35,340
things

2094
01:42:41,149 --> 01:42:38,219
and we were trying to come up with some

2095
01:42:43,149 --> 01:42:41,159
kind of like project that we could

2096
01:42:45,290 --> 01:42:43,159
tackle collectively

2097
01:42:47,390 --> 01:42:45,300
and do together

2098
01:42:51,649 --> 01:42:47,400
you know we're uh

2099
01:42:55,149 --> 01:42:51,659
this is very much in line with the idea

2100
01:42:59,330 --> 01:42:55,159
that Greg Bishop has of

2101
01:43:02,330 --> 01:42:59,340
being more attuned with the right brain

2102
01:43:04,790 --> 01:43:02,340
you know when it comes to to approach

2103
01:43:06,649 --> 01:43:04,800
the UFO phenomenon

2104
01:43:08,209 --> 01:43:06,659
it's like we were saying you know like

2105
01:43:12,229 --> 01:43:08,219
so many people

2106
01:43:17,510 --> 01:43:12,239
want to dissect UFOs with scientific

2107
01:43:20,090 --> 01:43:17,520
tools and using analyzes and try to put

2108
01:43:22,669 --> 01:43:20,100
the UFO under a microscope okay that's

2109
01:43:26,330 --> 01:43:22,679
all well and good

2110
01:43:29,870 --> 01:43:26,340
but the UFO you can also approach UFOs

2111
01:43:32,870 --> 01:43:29,880
through creativity through ART

2112
01:43:35,390 --> 01:43:32,880
through music you know some of the most

2113
01:43:38,030 --> 01:43:35,400
interesting ideas about UFOs have come

2114
01:43:38,990 --> 01:43:38,040
not from scientists but from artists you

2115
01:43:41,390 --> 01:43:39,000
know like

2116
01:43:44,090 --> 01:43:41,400
David Bowie you know John Lennon John

2117
01:43:46,790 --> 01:43:44,100
Lennon also had a UFO sighting by the

2118
01:43:50,510 --> 01:43:46,800
way on on New York you know he saw you

2119
01:43:53,990 --> 01:43:50,520
know a big UFO uh from his apartment

2120
01:43:57,169 --> 01:43:54,000
same with David Bowie uh

2121
01:44:01,669 --> 01:43:57,179
and we wanted to see if we could use the

2122
01:44:03,709 --> 01:44:01,679
those type of tools in order to make

2123
01:44:05,450 --> 01:44:03,719
something interesting with regards to

2124
01:44:07,430 --> 01:44:05,460
the UFO phenomenon but we were

2125
01:44:11,030 --> 01:44:07,440
struggling with trying to come up with

2126
01:44:12,070 --> 01:44:11,040
that with what and that's when Greg

2127
01:44:16,310 --> 01:44:12,080
Bishop

2128
01:44:18,830 --> 01:44:16,320
uh very nonchalantly very casually he

2129
01:44:21,770 --> 01:44:18,840
said well you know I've always had this

2130
01:44:25,850 --> 01:44:21,780
fantasy almost like uh you know like a

2131
01:44:28,070 --> 01:44:25,860
dream baseball project of uh a Tarot

2132
01:44:31,310 --> 01:44:28,080
deck but instead of using the typical

2133
01:44:34,669 --> 01:44:31,320
you know archetypes we will use people

2134
01:44:37,430 --> 01:44:34,679
like Jack belay and Santa Friedman and

2135
01:44:40,370 --> 01:44:37,440
John kill you know and the moment he

2136
01:44:43,129 --> 01:44:40,380
said that everybody said well that

2137
01:44:46,070 --> 01:44:43,139
sounds so goddamn cool

2138
01:44:47,990 --> 01:44:46,080
you know that's you know we want that

2139
01:44:51,169 --> 01:44:48,000
obviously you know

2140
01:44:53,149 --> 01:44:51,179
and I was I also found it cool but at

2141
01:44:55,310 --> 01:44:53,159
the same time I said like oh [\h__\h]

2142
01:44:58,010 --> 01:44:55,320
they're gonna ask me to do it because

2143
01:44:59,930 --> 01:44:58,020
I'm the artist and you know none of

2144
01:45:02,390 --> 01:44:59,940
these guys can draw so you know I'm

2145
01:45:05,209 --> 01:45:02,400
gonna have to get the brunt of the

2146
01:45:06,950 --> 01:45:05,219
project and at first we were starting to

2147
01:45:08,510 --> 01:45:06,960
fool around with it and say well you

2148
01:45:10,850 --> 01:45:08,520
know who will be the magician oh well

2149
01:45:14,390 --> 01:45:10,860
the magician will be Jacqueline I never

2150
01:45:16,310 --> 01:45:14,400
say that of course duh it will be the

2151
01:45:24,530 --> 01:45:16,320
the the

2152
01:45:26,390 --> 01:45:24,540
Heritage The Hermit oh John kill that's

2153
01:45:28,970 --> 01:45:26,400
great you know we'll be the lovers well

2154
01:45:33,050 --> 01:45:28,980
you know Betty and Barney Hill started

2155
01:45:35,990 --> 01:45:33,060
to get these discussions and who will be

2156
01:45:39,649 --> 01:45:36,000
where and why and what kind of imagery

2157
01:45:42,729 --> 01:45:39,659
we could use you know using the rider

2158
01:45:47,030 --> 01:45:42,739
weight Smith uh deck as a starting point

2159
01:45:48,169 --> 01:45:47,040
of but not trying to copy that exactly

2160
01:45:50,930 --> 01:45:48,179
because

2161
01:45:54,470 --> 01:45:50,940
we had among among the people in our

2162
01:45:58,370 --> 01:45:54,480
group we have uh someone like Susan

2163
01:46:00,770 --> 01:45:58,380
Demeter who is uh uh a witch and who

2164
01:46:02,810 --> 01:46:00,780
knows a lot about this history of Taro

2165
01:46:04,970 --> 01:46:02,820
so she could explain to us you know

2166
01:46:07,970 --> 01:46:04,980
what's the meaning behind uh you know

2167
01:46:10,310 --> 01:46:07,980
the cup in so-and-so car you know what

2168
01:46:13,550 --> 01:46:10,320
is trying to represent and trying to

2169
01:46:15,830 --> 01:46:13,560
find okay correlations between that and

2170
01:46:19,870 --> 01:46:15,840
the history of ufology

2171
01:46:22,189 --> 01:46:19,880
and we were we were toying with that and

2172
01:46:23,930 --> 01:46:22,199
I was getting like the pressure like

2173
01:46:25,729 --> 01:46:23,940
okay you know

2174
01:46:27,590 --> 01:46:25,739
get going you know get cracking with

2175
01:46:31,189 --> 01:46:27,600
this and I was like okay you know before

2176
01:46:33,590 --> 01:46:31,199
I sign up to this I need to do like one

2177
01:46:35,990 --> 01:46:33,600
card to try to see if I I'm up to this

2178
01:46:39,050 --> 01:46:36,000
you know otherwise if it looks like crap

2179
01:46:40,669 --> 01:46:39,060
then you know forget about it and let's

2180
01:46:44,090 --> 01:46:40,679
think about someone else something else

2181
01:46:47,290 --> 01:46:44,100
to do yeah and the first one I that I

2182
01:46:49,729 --> 01:46:47,300
did was uh the magician

2183
01:46:52,010 --> 01:46:49,739
uh and

2184
01:46:54,950 --> 01:46:52,020
when I showed it to the guys they were

2185
01:46:58,189 --> 01:46:54,960
saying No this looks great you know

2186
01:47:00,229 --> 01:46:58,199
we you can do it you know and very

2187
01:47:04,070 --> 01:47:00,239
naively I said well yeah I guess you

2188
01:47:06,709 --> 01:47:04,080
know it'll it wasn't so much of a hassle

2189
01:47:08,570 --> 01:47:06,719
you know it didn't take a long of time

2190
01:47:11,209 --> 01:47:08,580
uh

2191
01:47:14,990 --> 01:47:11,219
how how big a problem can it be you know

2192
01:47:16,810 --> 01:47:15,000
to to make 22 or 76 more of this you

2193
01:47:22,010 --> 01:47:16,820
know very naively

2194
01:47:25,490 --> 01:47:22,020
I I I imagine that and we kept doing

2195
01:47:28,250 --> 01:47:25,500
this you know our salons every week and

2196
01:47:32,510 --> 01:47:28,260
I and me trying to find uh the extra

2197
01:47:34,669 --> 01:47:32,520
time between commissions or between a

2198
01:47:36,709 --> 01:47:34,679
regular day job that I still kept at the

2199
01:47:40,070 --> 01:47:36,719
time I'm trying to do this on my

2200
01:47:41,990 --> 01:47:40,080
weekends or my time or my time off but

2201
01:47:45,229 --> 01:47:42,000
after

2202
01:47:49,550 --> 01:47:45,239
you know six months or more

2203
01:47:51,109 --> 01:47:49,560
we only had like two more uh cards to

2204
01:47:54,050 --> 01:47:51,119
show

2205
01:47:55,790 --> 01:47:54,060
and we knew that uh

2206
01:47:58,010 --> 01:47:55,800
that did what this wasn't the right

2207
01:48:00,109 --> 01:47:58,020
approach and I will take forever you

2208
01:48:02,390 --> 01:48:00,119
know it would take 10 years to do the

2209
01:48:05,209 --> 01:48:02,400
whole thing if we were going at this

2210
01:48:07,010 --> 01:48:05,219
space so I uh at one point someone

2211
01:48:08,930 --> 01:48:07,020
suggested well let's make some kind of

2212
01:48:14,629 --> 01:48:08,940
like Kickstarter campaign

2213
01:48:17,990 --> 01:48:14,639
so Miguel can focus on only on the cards

2214
01:48:19,910 --> 01:48:18,000
and and do nothing else and you know to

2215
01:48:21,229 --> 01:48:19,920
sustain himself you know we will raise

2216
01:48:25,010 --> 01:48:21,239
enough money

2217
01:48:26,629 --> 01:48:25,020
so he can devote you know a year or or

2218
01:48:29,030 --> 01:48:26,639
or more

2219
01:48:31,129 --> 01:48:29,040
doing nothing but drawing the cards and

2220
01:48:34,070 --> 01:48:31,139
I was like yeah perfect that sounds

2221
01:48:37,430 --> 01:48:34,080
great to me you know hey having a whole

2222
01:48:41,750 --> 01:48:37,440
year without worrying about uh uh where

2223
01:48:44,770 --> 01:48:41,760
do I have find a project to to to get

2224
01:48:49,250 --> 01:48:44,780
money and make sense me it sign me up

2225
01:48:51,709 --> 01:48:49,260
yeah and obviously right that's a dream

2226
01:48:54,709 --> 01:48:51,719
but before the dream we need to get real

2227
01:48:56,750 --> 01:48:54,719
and really organize the the campaign and

2228
01:49:00,169 --> 01:48:56,760
the first thing that we realize is that

2229
01:49:04,570 --> 01:49:00,179
okay we need at least to show five cards

2230
01:49:08,090 --> 01:49:04,580
just to show a proof of concept

2231
01:49:09,830 --> 01:49:08,100
so you know people realize take us

2232
01:49:13,910 --> 01:49:09,840
seriously and and take the campaign

2233
01:49:16,609 --> 01:49:13,920
seriously so it was until I finished the

2234
01:49:20,209 --> 01:49:16,619
the the five cars that I said to the

2235
01:49:23,750 --> 01:49:20,219
guys okay my work is done now it's your

2236
01:49:26,030 --> 01:49:23,760
chicken now it's your turn to get

2237
01:49:31,010 --> 01:49:26,040
working on the campaign and to figure

2238
01:49:34,310 --> 01:49:31,020
out uh you know prices and budget stuff

2239
01:49:37,729 --> 01:49:34,320
on where we're going to print it in the

2240
01:49:38,570 --> 01:49:37,739
states and you know the perks and all of

2241
01:49:47,030 --> 01:49:38,580
that

2242
01:49:49,790 --> 01:49:47,040
organized the campaign we also showed

2243
01:49:52,729 --> 01:49:49,800
the the the the the the cards to some

2244
01:49:54,890 --> 01:49:52,739
people to get feedback Greg even showed

2245
01:49:58,550 --> 01:49:54,900
the car the cards the first card to

2246
01:50:00,830 --> 01:49:58,560
Jacques to Jacqueline himself because in

2247
01:50:03,290 --> 01:50:00,840
in the back of our minds we had this

2248
01:50:07,010 --> 01:50:03,300
fear you know that if Valeria thought it

2249
01:50:07,790 --> 01:50:07,020
was a bad idea then you know we might as

2250
01:50:12,169 --> 01:50:07,800
well

2251
01:50:14,390 --> 01:50:12,179
back away from it and yeah at first I

2252
01:50:17,390 --> 01:50:14,400
think he said well you know I I don't

2253
01:50:19,070 --> 01:50:17,400
think he he understood the project or

2254
01:50:21,410 --> 01:50:19,080
what we were trying to do maybe he

2255
01:50:24,109 --> 01:50:21,420
thought it was some kind of like you

2256
01:50:27,229 --> 01:50:24,119
know just fine art in some carbo it is

2257
01:50:30,109 --> 01:50:27,239
Fan Art but uh it was he didn't

2258
01:50:33,709 --> 01:50:30,119
understand the level at which we wanted

2259
01:50:35,510 --> 01:50:33,719
to to do this this project but Greg

2260
01:50:38,629 --> 01:50:35,520
showed him the card and also told him

2261
01:50:40,609 --> 01:50:38,639
that JL hanik was going to be in the

2262
01:50:43,250 --> 01:50:40,619
curse and and I think at the at the

2263
01:50:45,050 --> 01:50:43,260
sound of that valet got really you know

2264
01:50:48,189 --> 01:50:45,060
changed his mind and said well that now

2265
01:50:51,229 --> 01:50:48,199
that that sounds interesting then

2266
01:50:53,030 --> 01:50:51,239
got his his Blessing and also the

2267
01:50:58,090 --> 01:50:53,040
blessing of people like Paul heineck you

2268
01:51:01,490 --> 01:50:58,100
know we also show Paul uh Allen's uh son

2269
01:51:05,689 --> 01:51:01,500
uh the card that is the emperor that

2270
01:51:08,330 --> 01:51:05,699
shows his father J.L hanik uh

2271
01:51:11,330 --> 01:51:08,340
and the moment that Greg showed him that

2272
01:51:12,770 --> 01:51:11,340
card I think that bumper of racing but

2273
01:51:15,050 --> 01:51:12,780
Paul says something like I don't know

2274
01:51:17,030 --> 01:51:15,060
what that is but I want it you know so

2275
01:51:18,950 --> 01:51:17,040
we were getting this uh encouragement

2276
01:51:20,810 --> 01:51:18,960
especially for me it was important for

2277
01:51:24,229 --> 01:51:20,820
me to get the the encouragement people

2278
01:51:27,950 --> 01:51:24,239
say well I people people think my my

2279
01:51:30,050 --> 01:51:27,960
work is not crap so I I I I I I I I can

2280
01:51:33,770 --> 01:51:30,060
keep going with it

2281
01:51:37,070 --> 01:51:33,780
and we launched the campaign it was more

2282
01:51:38,750 --> 01:51:37,080
successful than we had

2283
01:51:41,990 --> 01:51:38,760
ever dreamed of

2284
01:51:43,129 --> 01:51:42,000
we got almost twice the amount that we

2285
01:51:45,910 --> 01:51:43,139
were going for

2286
01:51:48,890 --> 01:51:45,920
which was you know great

2287
01:51:52,910 --> 01:51:48,900
and we officially started the campaign

2288
01:51:56,090 --> 01:51:52,920
we launched the campaign on Halloween of

2289
01:51:59,229 --> 01:51:56,100
2021 if I'm not mistaken

2290
01:52:03,410 --> 01:51:59,239
and after a month

2291
01:52:06,770 --> 01:52:03,420
and a half we had enough money uh and we

2292
01:52:08,990 --> 01:52:06,780
and I started you know working on on the

2293
01:52:10,669 --> 01:52:09,000
project and that was my life you know

2294
01:52:15,350 --> 01:52:10,679
for a whole year

2295
01:52:17,810 --> 01:52:15,360
uh for at least six hours a day doing

2296
01:52:21,169 --> 01:52:17,820
nothing but working on the cars

2297
01:52:23,810 --> 01:52:21,179
researching the cards uh finding

2298
01:52:24,709 --> 01:52:23,820
references for the cards polishing the

2299
01:52:27,950 --> 01:52:24,719
cards

2300
01:52:31,609 --> 01:52:27,960
and then also keeping with the salons

2301
01:52:33,770 --> 01:52:31,619
every Sunday to keep talking about the

2302
01:52:37,010 --> 01:52:33,780
next car that I was going to do

2303
01:52:40,189 --> 01:52:37,020
and it was a really interesting uh

2304
01:52:43,910 --> 01:52:40,199
Dynamic uh fun

2305
01:52:45,530 --> 01:52:43,920
uh sometimes a bit stressful experiences

2306
01:52:47,590 --> 01:52:45,540
obviously you know the dead as the

2307
01:52:51,109 --> 01:52:47,600
deadline keeps getting closer and closer

2308
01:52:53,030 --> 01:52:51,119
the pressure keeps piling and piling but

2309
01:52:56,510 --> 01:52:53,040
I wouldn't have changes for the world it

2310
01:52:58,629 --> 01:52:56,520
was it was really it was a really

2311
01:53:01,129 --> 01:52:58,639
I want to say it was a magical

2312
01:53:03,470 --> 01:53:01,139
experience for me because it was truly

2313
01:53:06,830 --> 01:53:03,480
magical and I'm not and I'm not saying

2314
01:53:09,590 --> 01:53:06,840
that uh because of of having had the

2315
01:53:12,290 --> 01:53:09,600
chance to do this but also because there

2316
01:53:16,970 --> 01:53:12,300
were a lot of synchronicities that

2317
01:53:21,669 --> 01:53:16,980
happened not only to me but to Greg and

2318
01:53:23,810 --> 01:53:21,679
the others around the cards that are

2319
01:53:26,990 --> 01:53:23,820
that have really

2320
01:53:29,570 --> 01:53:27,000
gave me the impression that we were

2321
01:53:33,709 --> 01:53:29,580
doing something very powerful indeed

2322
01:53:37,790 --> 01:53:33,719
that we were really doing something that

2323
01:53:40,370 --> 01:53:37,800
is not just uh some cute you know like

2324
01:53:43,129 --> 01:53:40,380
collection collectors item that is going

2325
01:53:46,790 --> 01:53:43,139
to collect dust somewhere else I really

2326
01:53:49,370 --> 01:53:46,800
think that when people

2327
01:53:52,970 --> 01:53:49,380
finally get their hands in the cars and

2328
01:53:54,410 --> 01:53:52,980
start really playing with the cards I

2329
01:53:57,050 --> 01:53:54,420
mean I'm not saying that there's going

2330
01:53:59,270 --> 01:53:57,060
to be like you're gonna have a a close

2331
01:54:02,330 --> 01:53:59,280
encounter of the Third Kind

2332
01:54:06,229 --> 01:54:02,340
I think but I think that stuff is going

2333
01:54:09,890 --> 01:54:06,239
to happen to the people who respect the

2334
01:54:13,370 --> 01:54:09,900
cards the people who use the cards uh in

2335
01:54:16,070 --> 01:54:13,380
their practice or even to people who are

2336
01:54:18,830 --> 01:54:16,080
not practicing magicians but are are

2337
01:54:21,530 --> 01:54:18,840
nevertheless drawn to the cars for other

2338
01:54:24,649 --> 01:54:21,540
reason and maybe their start they they

2339
01:54:27,649 --> 01:54:24,659
begin a path of learning more about Taro

2340
01:54:30,229 --> 01:54:27,659
learning more about ufology you know

2341
01:54:33,350 --> 01:54:30,239
learning more about who was Stanton

2342
01:54:36,709 --> 01:54:33,360
Friedman who was James MacDonald

2343
01:54:40,250 --> 01:54:36,719
you know who were the you know who was

2344
01:54:43,490 --> 01:54:40,260
Bob Hopkins who was John Mack who was

2345
01:54:45,530 --> 01:54:43,500
people like uh other people that were

2346
01:54:48,470 --> 01:54:45,540
depicted in the cards

2347
01:54:50,649 --> 01:54:48,480
that is that is our aspiration you know

2348
01:54:54,229 --> 01:54:50,659
it's our hope and

2349
01:54:57,590 --> 01:54:54,239
uh the first car the first phase of the

2350
01:55:01,189 --> 01:54:57,600
project was completed successfully uh uh

2351
01:55:04,490 --> 01:55:01,199
and our hope is that

2352
01:55:07,729 --> 01:55:04,500
in the future we can continue with the

2353
01:55:10,430 --> 01:55:07,739
second phase which is the minor Arcana

2354
01:55:12,950 --> 01:55:10,440
of the cards because we have we only

2355
01:55:14,689 --> 01:55:12,960
completed the major Arcana you know uh

2356
01:55:17,450 --> 01:55:14,699
in the people who know about Taro you

2357
01:55:20,450 --> 01:55:17,460
know they're 22 cars or comprised in a

2358
01:55:23,590 --> 01:55:20,460
major Arcana and the other ones are the

2359
01:55:26,330 --> 01:55:23,600
the main the major the major Arcana

2360
01:55:28,790 --> 01:55:26,340
and obviously there are so those are

2361
01:55:29,990 --> 01:55:28,800
more cards to do so we need to create a

2362
01:55:32,330 --> 01:55:30,000
second campaign

2363
01:55:34,970 --> 01:55:32,340
we need to ask for more money obviously

2364
01:55:37,729 --> 01:55:34,980
I'll need to have a lot more time to

2365
01:55:40,070 --> 01:55:37,739
complete it maybe we have to figure out

2366
01:55:43,850 --> 01:55:40,080
something in order to break the project

2367
01:55:47,149 --> 01:55:43,860
into different phases uh

2368
01:55:49,010 --> 01:55:47,159
uh in order to you know show people

2369
01:55:51,109 --> 01:55:49,020
instead of saying well you know just

2370
01:55:53,209 --> 01:55:51,119
wait five years until yeah finishes the

2371
01:55:55,250 --> 01:55:53,219
cards and then I'll we'll send you the

2372
01:55:57,890 --> 01:55:55,260
they'll send you your deck

2373
01:56:00,830 --> 01:55:57,900
which will still trying to figure out

2374
01:56:02,750 --> 01:56:00,840
that and at the same time we we we have

2375
01:56:05,149 --> 01:56:02,760
received so many requests from people

2376
01:56:07,669 --> 01:56:05,159
who didn't know about the campaign at

2377
01:56:11,030 --> 01:56:07,679
first and who have seen the artwork and

2378
01:56:13,189 --> 01:56:11,040
say hey where can I get one I I want I

2379
01:56:15,830 --> 01:56:13,199
want the cars where can I purchase that

2380
01:56:17,510 --> 01:56:15,840
purchase them and we don't we don't have

2381
01:56:19,490 --> 01:56:17,520
a story yet we don't know how we're

2382
01:56:22,910 --> 01:56:19,500
going to do that we're going to know how

2383
01:56:25,250 --> 01:56:22,920
we we will be able to accommodate those

2384
01:56:28,250 --> 01:56:25,260
people well obviously I will be thrilled

2385
01:56:31,550 --> 01:56:28,260
you know if if I can sell if I can sell

2386
01:56:33,050 --> 01:56:31,560
10 000 decks you know and live off you

2387
01:56:35,149 --> 01:56:33,060
live off of it you know for the next

2388
01:56:38,090 --> 01:56:35,159
five years you know I will be the

2389
01:56:40,609 --> 01:56:38,100
happiest uh but we'll still need to

2390
01:56:42,950 --> 01:56:40,619
figure that out you know we are artists

2391
01:56:47,930 --> 01:56:42,960
and we are UFO researchers we're

2392
01:56:53,930 --> 01:56:50,750
we're figuring this out as we go along

2393
01:56:56,570 --> 01:56:53,940
people you know that's all yeah

2394
01:56:58,910 --> 01:56:56,580
it's a process man well and I know a lot

2395
01:57:01,129 --> 01:56:58,920
of people will really look forward to

2396
01:57:03,169 --> 01:57:01,139
that next campaign because I'm one of

2397
01:57:06,050 --> 01:57:03,179
those people who I want my hands on the

2398
01:57:08,810 --> 01:57:06,060
cards and it's they're they're amazing

2399
01:57:10,729 --> 01:57:08,820
because for someone who who isn't into

2400
01:57:14,089 --> 01:57:10,739
tarot who never really gave it much

2401
01:57:16,970 --> 01:57:14,099
thought you know I just admired the

2402
01:57:19,729 --> 01:57:16,980
cards and looked at the fine detail

2403
01:57:22,250 --> 01:57:19,739
um of each card and each personality in

2404
01:57:23,629 --> 01:57:22,260
each case history and that's what I

2405
01:57:26,330 --> 01:57:23,639
appreciated whereas someone who's into

2406
01:57:29,089 --> 01:57:26,340
tarot will appreciate that aspect of it

2407
01:57:32,390 --> 01:57:29,099
so I love this idea this blend of like

2408
01:57:34,729 --> 01:57:32,400
kind of the occult and astrology and

2409
01:57:37,250 --> 01:57:34,739
ufology all of the kind of mixing

2410
01:57:40,790 --> 01:57:37,260
together into this one artistic

2411
01:57:43,970 --> 01:57:40,800
expression and um like you said I think

2412
01:57:46,850 --> 01:57:43,980
art has a lot to do with all of this

2413
01:57:51,410 --> 01:57:46,860
um in terms of you know how art is

2414
01:57:53,689 --> 01:57:51,420
created and and the Mystery behind that

2415
01:57:56,209 --> 01:57:53,699
um it is it's it's a mystery how we

2416
01:57:58,550 --> 01:57:56,219
create create and I think that really

2417
01:58:02,089 --> 01:57:58,560
does play into a lot of this as well so

2418
01:58:04,490 --> 01:58:02,099
dude take as long as you need everyone

2419
01:58:07,850 --> 01:58:04,500
will wait patiently if we've learned

2420
01:58:10,370 --> 01:58:07,860
anything in ufology it's to be patient

2421
01:58:12,490 --> 01:58:10,380
um so no

2422
01:58:16,010 --> 01:58:12,500
that's that's exactly

2423
01:58:19,250 --> 01:58:16,020
that's amazing yeah yeah if I can only

2424
01:58:22,490 --> 01:58:19,260
say that the the cars will be ready

2425
01:58:26,930 --> 01:58:22,500
before disclosure that's the only thing

2426
01:58:28,910 --> 01:58:26,940
I can you know say with any any shred of

2427
01:58:30,470 --> 01:58:28,920
confidence it will be here before the

2428
01:58:34,550 --> 01:58:30,480
aliens land

2429
01:58:36,290 --> 01:58:34,560
I love it I love it man well hey you

2430
01:58:39,890 --> 01:58:36,300
have been very gracious with your time

2431
01:58:41,810 --> 01:58:39,900
so I do want to wrap this up but before

2432
01:58:43,729 --> 01:58:41,820
I let you go

2433
01:58:46,250 --> 01:58:43,739
um any last words Miguel you want to

2434
01:58:47,870 --> 01:58:46,260
give to um our viewers or our listeners

2435
01:58:49,910 --> 01:58:47,880
you know we have a lot of new people

2436
01:58:51,890 --> 01:58:49,920
coming into the field all the time

2437
01:58:55,910 --> 01:58:51,900
younger people getting involved getting

2438
01:58:58,250 --> 01:58:55,920
interested any words of advice for

2439
01:58:59,570 --> 01:58:58,260
anyone out there just getting into this

2440
01:59:01,070 --> 01:58:59,580
topic

2441
01:59:09,550 --> 01:59:01,080
yeah

2442
01:59:12,950 --> 01:59:09,560
to get cliche about it but

2443
01:59:15,050 --> 01:59:12,960
my advice to people who are just getting

2444
01:59:20,209 --> 01:59:15,060
into into

2445
01:59:21,589 --> 01:59:20,219
the UFO stuff and may may be like at a

2446
01:59:25,370 --> 01:59:21,599
loss of

2447
01:59:28,729 --> 01:59:25,380
where to go what to do what what to read

2448
01:59:33,350 --> 01:59:28,739
who to listen to who to who who you who

2449
01:59:36,830 --> 01:59:33,360
to believe in is uh

2450
01:59:40,430 --> 01:59:36,840
take it easy you know

2451
01:59:44,089 --> 01:59:40,440
as cliche as it sounds it's more about

2452
01:59:46,430 --> 01:59:44,099
the journey than the destination

2453
01:59:49,370 --> 01:59:46,440
there were a lot of people who were

2454
01:59:51,109 --> 01:59:49,380
smarter than you and I

2455
01:59:53,629 --> 01:59:51,119
who devoted

2456
01:59:54,890 --> 01:59:53,639
the whole of their lives starting this

2457
01:59:58,609 --> 01:59:54,900
thing

2458
02:00:00,649 --> 01:59:58,619
some of those people are depicted in our

2459
02:00:02,750 --> 02:00:00,659
cars because we wanted to honor that

2460
02:00:04,970 --> 02:00:02,760
passion and that devotion

2461
02:00:07,490 --> 02:00:04,980
well those people went to their graves

2462
02:00:09,830 --> 02:00:07,500
without ever finding the truth

2463
02:00:11,209 --> 02:00:09,840
and that may well very happen happen to

2464
02:00:16,450 --> 02:00:11,219
you

2465
02:00:21,589 --> 02:00:16,460
I said

2466
02:00:25,609 --> 02:00:21,599
the the UFOs reward people in different

2467
02:00:29,270 --> 02:00:25,619
in a different way not by learning the

2468
02:00:30,609 --> 02:00:29,280
the ultimate secret of the universe and

2469
02:00:34,850 --> 02:00:30,619
life

2470
02:00:35,990 --> 02:00:34,860
but by showing you new avenues of

2471
02:00:41,270 --> 02:00:36,000
exploration

2472
02:00:42,770 --> 02:00:41,280
like Michael and often says if you

2473
02:00:46,189 --> 02:00:42,780
start

2474
02:00:47,689 --> 02:00:46,199
asking questions about UFOs and after a

2475
02:00:52,250 --> 02:00:47,699
few years you don't start asking

2476
02:00:54,470 --> 02:00:52,260
questions about the afterlife and Goth

2477
02:00:58,450 --> 02:00:54,480
and the soul

2478
02:01:03,530 --> 02:00:58,460
you're probably doing it wrong because

2479
02:01:06,290 --> 02:01:03,540
UFOs is in a way the perfect starter

2480
02:01:08,810 --> 02:01:06,300
truck you know it's like it's like you

2481
02:01:11,209 --> 02:01:08,820
you know some kind of like cannabis for

2482
02:01:14,350 --> 02:01:11,219
the brain you start with with UFOs but

2483
02:01:19,310 --> 02:01:14,360
then you you learn about

2484
02:01:21,470 --> 02:01:19,320
uh psychedelics you learn about psychic

2485
02:01:23,750 --> 02:01:21,480
phenomena you learn about reincarnation

2486
02:01:26,450 --> 02:01:23,760
you learn about ghost activity

2487
02:01:29,149 --> 02:01:26,460
Poltergeist activity you learn about

2488
02:01:32,450 --> 02:01:29,159
Bigfoot you learn about ancient

2489
02:01:35,209 --> 02:01:32,460
civilizations uh you learn about all

2490
02:01:37,490 --> 02:01:35,219
this stuff and though all this stuff if

2491
02:01:42,050 --> 02:01:37,500
you do it right

2492
02:01:44,109 --> 02:01:42,060
those will enrich your life in in ways

2493
02:01:47,629 --> 02:01:44,119
that you cannot

2494
02:01:50,649 --> 02:01:47,639
Glimpse right now if you're still in the

2495
02:01:54,589 --> 02:01:50,659
starting point you know and this this

2496
02:01:57,410 --> 02:01:54,599
is like I said it's not about where the

2497
02:01:59,930 --> 02:01:57,420
path will leave you quoting Carlos

2498
02:02:03,169 --> 02:01:59,940
Castaneda and the book the first word

2499
02:02:07,010 --> 02:02:03,179
book he wrote the teachings of the one

2500
02:02:09,470 --> 02:02:07,020
all roads are low and all paths lead

2501
02:02:11,390 --> 02:02:09,480
exactly the same to the same destination

2502
02:02:14,870 --> 02:02:11,400
which is nowhere

2503
02:02:17,209 --> 02:02:14,880
but the thing is to pick the path

2504
02:02:19,430 --> 02:02:17,219
that works for you because it's the path

2505
02:02:23,810 --> 02:02:19,440
that has a heart

2506
02:02:28,270 --> 02:02:23,820
the path in which you grow as a person

2507
02:02:32,149 --> 02:02:28,280
you grow uh intellectually you grow

2508
02:02:35,930 --> 02:02:32,159
emotionally you grow spiritually and if

2509
02:02:37,910 --> 02:02:35,940
you manage to find that in the UFO path

2510
02:02:40,070 --> 02:02:37,920
then

2511
02:02:44,390 --> 02:02:40,080
enjoy the ride man you're gonna have a

2512
02:02:48,890 --> 02:02:44,400
blast but you're only trying to find the

2513
02:02:50,510 --> 02:02:48,900
fast the answers of why are UFOs where

2514
02:02:52,129 --> 02:02:50,520
do they come from what does the

2515
02:02:53,169 --> 02:02:52,139
government know where are they going to

2516
02:02:56,810 --> 02:02:53,179
tell us

2517
02:03:01,310 --> 02:02:56,820
that path is only going to bring you

2518
02:03:04,490 --> 02:03:01,320
pain and misery so find the reason why

2519
02:03:07,129 --> 02:03:04,500
you're choosing this path

2520
02:03:10,790 --> 02:03:07,139
see to it that is are the right reasons

2521
02:03:13,129 --> 02:03:10,800
and if they are enjoy the ride and enjoy

2522
02:03:16,970 --> 02:03:13,139
your path

2523
02:03:18,589 --> 02:03:16,980
that's beautiful man wow hey even as a

2524
02:03:21,310 --> 02:03:18,599
seasoned researcher I needed to hear

2525
02:03:24,589 --> 02:03:21,320
that too so thank you thank you so much

2526
02:03:26,390 --> 02:03:24,599
wow I I can't think of a better way to

2527
02:03:28,790 --> 02:03:26,400
sort of end it Miguel this has been an

2528
02:03:30,470 --> 02:03:28,800
absolute honor man I think this is the

2529
02:03:32,750 --> 02:03:30,480
conversation I've been waiting to have

2530
02:03:36,890 --> 02:03:32,760
for a very long time here on somewhere

2531
02:03:39,770 --> 02:03:36,900
in the sky so uh Before I Let You Go and

2532
02:03:42,050 --> 02:03:39,780
thank you again a million times where

2533
02:03:44,229 --> 02:03:42,060
can we find everything you're up to and

2534
02:03:47,149 --> 02:03:44,239
yeah where can people follow your work

2535
02:03:48,950 --> 02:03:47,159
well first of all uh Ryan this has been

2536
02:03:51,950 --> 02:03:48,960
an absolute blast I mean we've been

2537
02:03:55,310 --> 02:03:51,960
talking for two more than two hours and

2538
02:03:58,370 --> 02:03:55,320
it's you know it's been an absolute uh

2539
02:04:01,310 --> 02:03:58,380
thrill we could just keep talking for

2540
02:04:04,430 --> 02:04:01,320
two more hours and you know we will even

2541
02:04:06,770 --> 02:04:04,440
you know finished all the topics you

2542
02:04:08,750 --> 02:04:06,780
know that we have we have in our minds

2543
02:04:11,510 --> 02:04:08,760
uh

2544
02:04:13,910 --> 02:04:11,520
as for which where can people find me

2545
02:04:15,970 --> 02:04:13,920
obviously first the first destination I

2546
02:04:19,370 --> 02:04:15,980
always recommend the daily Grail

2547
02:04:21,530 --> 02:04:19,380
dailygrill.com uh I still write for the

2548
02:04:24,109 --> 02:04:21,540
daily rail I'll keep writing for the

2549
02:04:28,729 --> 02:04:24,119
little rail until you know Greg closest

2550
02:04:32,390 --> 02:04:28,739
shop or kicks me out uh and daily Grail

2551
02:04:34,609 --> 02:04:32,400
is one of the longest running uh sites

2552
02:04:37,689 --> 02:04:34,619
that deals with these sort of topics and

2553
02:04:39,970 --> 02:04:37,699
is and it does it in a very

2554
02:04:45,530 --> 02:04:39,980
center-minded

2555
02:04:48,890 --> 02:04:45,540
approach that is neither uh skeptical or

2556
02:04:53,089 --> 02:04:48,900
you know totally uh in The Believer camp

2557
02:04:55,189 --> 02:04:53,099
we we try to to find what you know Greg

2558
02:04:57,169 --> 02:04:55,199
Bishop calls the excluded middle which I

2559
02:04:59,390 --> 02:04:57,179
think is always the right approach to

2560
02:05:01,129 --> 02:04:59,400
take with these topics and there's a lot

2561
02:05:04,729 --> 02:05:01,139
of content you can find there and also

2562
02:05:07,430 --> 02:05:04,739
Greg Greg Taylor sorry uh publishes uh

2563
02:05:10,129 --> 02:05:07,440
books with his editorial he he was the

2564
02:05:13,129 --> 02:05:10,139
one who republished passport to Magonia

2565
02:05:16,790 --> 02:05:13,139
and he was also the one who published

2566
02:05:19,430 --> 02:05:16,800
things like Adam go rightly's Sorcerers

2567
02:05:21,709 --> 02:05:19,440
books and Cooks so also you would like

2568
02:05:24,290 --> 02:05:21,719
to check that out those books I designed

2569
02:05:26,209 --> 02:05:24,300
the the the the cover for sorcerer's

2570
02:05:28,970 --> 02:05:26,219
books and Cooks by the way and if you

2571
02:05:32,629 --> 02:05:28,980
want to check out uh that kind of stuff

2572
02:05:34,550 --> 02:05:32,639
like my designs and and you know

2573
02:05:38,470 --> 02:05:34,560
personal musings you can also check

2574
02:05:41,570 --> 02:05:38,480
check out my personal website

2575
02:05:43,970 --> 02:05:41,580
absurdbydesign.com and yeah that's the

2576
02:05:45,530 --> 02:05:43,980
definitely the reason why I chose that

2577
02:05:48,050 --> 02:05:45,540
name is because

2578
02:05:50,270 --> 02:05:48,060
there is an absurdity within all of

2579
02:05:53,149 --> 02:05:50,280
these and it seems to be

2580
02:05:55,270 --> 02:05:53,159
purposely you know by Design instead of

2581
02:05:57,410 --> 02:05:55,280
just you know a fluke so

2582
02:06:00,229 --> 02:05:57,420
absurdbydesign.com check the check that

2583
02:06:03,470 --> 02:06:00,239
out if you want I'm until I'm still on

2584
02:06:07,070 --> 02:06:03,480
Twitter until Elon musk's runs it to the

2585
02:06:08,930 --> 02:06:07,080
ground you know uh you can also find me

2586
02:06:12,350 --> 02:06:08,940
on Facebook I think I'm also on

2587
02:06:14,390 --> 02:06:12,360
Instagram you know so all those all

2588
02:06:16,970 --> 02:06:14,400
those social media that takes up all of

2589
02:06:18,890 --> 02:06:16,980
our time and energy uh

2590
02:06:22,669 --> 02:06:18,900
um you can find me there

2591
02:06:24,649 --> 02:06:22,679
here to there yep again until until that

2592
02:06:27,350 --> 02:06:24,659
day comes where the Tarot deck is done

2593
02:06:30,550 --> 02:06:27,360
and the Alien Invasion occurs

2594
02:06:35,030 --> 02:06:30,560
will be on social media for sure

2595
02:06:37,129 --> 02:06:35,040
Miguel red pill junkie my friend thank

2596
02:06:40,310 --> 02:06:37,139
you thank you so much for this amazing

2597
02:07:06,370 --> 02:06:41,390
my pleasure thank you